You Suck.
Jeff, I donāt know which I disagree more with: the topic of this post or its conclusion.
First, as Achille and others point out, programming is probably the least physically demanding job ever, except probably for lying on your back dictating your memoirs. Iāve held no small share of manual-labor-type jobs (including 7 years of archaeological fieldwork) ā¦ all of which produce in a day more repetitive strain injuries than weeks of hardcore keyboarding.
Which I suppose is a reverse-elitist way of saying: if you can write 1000 words (and 7 pictures) about what you sit on, youāve officially run out of things to complain about.
Second, as Bernhard, alm and others point out, if your back hurts from sitting, YOUāRE SITTING WRONG. Human beings arenāt built to sit in one place for eight hours, weāre built to walk 20 miles a day in the tropical sun. Sitting is an active process involving your core muscles, and chairs like these promote the atrophy of those muscles. You know, the ones they call your CORE. An hour of yoga every other day will do more for your back and wrists than a $500 chair.
I have a textbook ābad backā and after eight hours in a getup like an Aeron I can barely stand. I prefer a kneeling chair, stool, hardback (read: dining room) chair, or cross-legged on the plain old floor.
Finally: itās a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Jeff ā You have an open invitation if you are ever in Grand Rapids to go to Steelcase and Herman Miller. Both are home here in GR and I have some contacts that can get us to tour and see the facilities. Steelcase has a very cool facility where they show off the newest innovations in workspace design. Very cool place to tour.
Also there is a Steelcase employee-only store where they have chairs coming off leases that can be bought for a lot less than new. The chairs are refurbished and most are in quite good shape.
programming is probably the least physically demanding job ever
Yes, but so? I would be willing to wager that in 20 years or so we will be seeing an epidemic of professionals who work at computers all day (not just programmers) that are practically crippled. Physical labor may be painful and demanding and carry risk of injury, but that doesnāt mean that sitting at a desk 40 - 80 hours per week for 30 years is easy on the body.
Why the need to sneer at programmers because they sit while they do their job? Canāt both kinds of work have long term negative effects?
Where can I get these chairs in the Greater Toronto Area?
Would you people please just stop talking about how this blog is deteriorating and suppress your need to whine? If you donāt like the subject matter of the post, donāt read it. If you donāt like the direction the blog is going, go find a new blog to read. I donāt care about your juvenile whining and complaining and it bothers me when I have to waste time reading unproductive comments such as that. Go tell it to your parents or your teacher you whiny infants.
Back on topic, I find that even in my chair at my office it doesnāt seem to affect my back as long as I take the time throughout the day to get up and take a 5-10 minute walk to the water fountain or something, and stretch a little. Is there store I can go to and try sitting in one so I can see what all the fuss is about?
I own the ergohuman in leather and have very little complaints. As far as good chairs, just make sure to get one with lots of adjustments.
Wow - some of the comments amuse me - I used to buy inexpensive chairs for my computer desk and then I got a serious job at a major telecom and they had $1200 chairs and was spoiled forever. I was so impressed with the chairs, when I left and started working from home, I got chairs for everyone in the house who sits at a computer. I found a few used locations that carry the chairs and I got them for $150 each (and they retail for $400 not the same as the telecom, but still, very nice)
Now, the only people in the house who sit on regular chairs are the children (under 10) and the guests. (we have 10 PCs in the house, we have guests all the timeā¦)
Some people think this is elitist, however, some people spent $1000 for a seat option for their car where they will spend an hour to 90 minutes a day in it (I work from home, I filled up the car in May, still have half a tank of gas, so your time in the car may vary), yet balk at spending he same $1000 for a chair they will sit in for 8 to 10 hours a day. I feel the same way about the mattress to my bed, I spend far more time on that then in my car, I should invest adequate money in those for quality top grade products.
If you sit 8 h at work you are certainly doing something very wrong. Buy an electrical desk which is adjustable for height. Use it to stand every few hours. YOur back willb e very thankful for it.
i will also throw my hat in with the crowed thatās mentioned exercise balls.
i started sitting on one in 2002 or so, and nothing i have ever tried comes close to being as comfortable over the long haul.
it does not recline, which can be bothersome at times, but i never get a sore back, never a sore butt and i never have any real complaints at all.
best $25 i have ever spent.
I have to agree with Paul and Keturn. The problem that programmers face - having to sit and be alert for eight or more hours a day - is NOT a new problem. For over 1000 years, yogis have developed and refined yoga to confront the anatomical problems presented by having to sit and concentrate hard for ten hours a day. Anyone who can should get some lower back strength studying yoga, and drop $40 on a buckwheat zafu. You can put a zafu on whatever you want, at whatever height you want, and with lower back strength it will hold you up and radiate your heat perfectly. Spending $1000 on a chair wonāt make you sit better any more than than spending $1000 on a watch will make you more punctual; itās one of those situations where dollars canāt really proxy for effort.
http://recomputation.blogspot.com/2008/07/re-investing-in-quality-programming.html
Jeff,
You are making a monumental mistake to revisit this again. A better chair will not increase your productivity, itāll keep you a slave to the tools. Next up: best programming keyboard, best programming mouse, next year youāll have a review of the best programming music. If you go down this road, thereās only one way out: $500 gold-plated ethernet cables.
While you are not down to audiophile level stupidity consumerism, you are close. If you go down this road your productivity will drop as you blame the lack of tools, ie My laptops keyboard sucks, canāt code with it right now, will wait until I can dock it. If you go down this road youāll stop enjoying your passion. Youāll become like Steve Kindig, sr. audiophile reviewer, who canāt listen to his ipod for extended periods and canāt haul [his] system and listening room for high quality music.
If you go down this road youāll rob yourself of the enjoyment. But there is salvation: Next time you sin, force yourself off your rig, sit down with pencil and paper, and write the damn code out. The rest of the world is doing just fine without the Best X for Y crap. Hereās how the rest of the world does it: Wooden chair, 15 CRT monitor, cheap desktop tower. The U.S. hosts about 600,000 programmers, there are about 12,000,000 worldwide. You donāt see them bitching about the chairs.
My mother plays a certain kind of sport, Sheās this years U.S national champion in the sport. This sport uses a certain kind of tool. She emigrated from a lesser endowed, country. Her tools are old, cheap by current U.S. standards. And yet, to my shock and amazement, when I looked up blogs discussing her: They were not talking about training, they were wondering about her tools. They were wondering what she was using, what brand was her (tool1), what production model was (tool2). I was floored. That was an important lesson for me. Both my parents are in this field, and they always say, the key is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, CONCENTRATE, RELAX, NOT TOOLS. Stop being a slave to the ubiquitous consumerism. Start focusing on your work.
And hereās the last WTF with your article: You are wasting another $500-$1000 for another chair simply because itās associated with dot-com excess.
My mother plays a certain kind of sport, Sheās this years U.S national champion in the sport. This sport uses a certain kind of tool. She emigrated from a lesser endowed, country. Her tools are old, cheap by current U.S. standards
This is not a zero-sum game. You can practice the sport AND have quality equipment, too. Why does it have to be one or the other?
Besides, sometimes the equipment can improve performance, though Iāll agree this is exceedingly rare:
http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-gaming/article/2008-03/can-swimsuit-be-too-good
SamSim: I donāt run, bike, eat 8 hours a day. I do those things, but not 8 hours a day. So, I donāt see what is so sad about it. I work from home, so itās my most used item.
Chris, friend, whatās sad is that your prize possession is a fing chair. (Followed, and Iām just guessing here, by a car, a couch and a TV). Whatās sad is that this string about fing chairs has run what, 200 comments? Whatās sad is that Jeff posted his review of chairs on the FOURTH OF F*ING JULY and that 90% of those commments have come during a THREE DAY WEEKEND. Whatās sad is that so many commenters think the problem is cheap chairs instead of too much sitting.
I work 8 hrs/day too but working != sitting and it damn sure != sitting in the same damn chair for 8 hours Sometimes I go to the coffeeshop ā¦ sometimes I stand at the computer ā¦ sometimes I have meetings ā¦ sometimes I walk around the block thinking ā¦ sometimes I use a piece of paper and a pencil ā¦ sometimes I just use a different chair to give my ass a break
Not too mention I get another 16 hrs/day and 24 whole hrs on 2 days/wk when I am nowhere near that chair.
Not that Iām getting too much work done today. I keep hitting refresh on this thread. The attention to sloth on display here is damn near hypnotic.
I completely agree with Chris here. You are way off base.
Are you honestly saying that you spend more hours per week using your bicycle, your running shoes or your gardening tools than the chair at your desk?
Chris didnāt say it was his prize possession. He asserted that it was something that he used a lot, so it justifies a reasonable investment - especially when compared to things that cost more and are used less.
I work 8 hrs/day too but working != sitting ā¦
Thatās great for you. Really. Well done.
But I bet the majority of folk reading this blog spend most of their day sat in a chair in front of a PC. Not through lazines or sloth, but because their jobs involve writing code and that is where the code is.
Sometimes I go to the coffeeshop ā¦
Yep - someimes I go make myself a coffee. But it only takes 2 minutes.
sometimes I stand at the computer ā¦
What and bend down to the desk? Or are you offended by buying a good chair but happy to splash out on an adjustable variable-height desk?
sometimes I have meetings ā¦
Not so much when working from home. And even in the office they generally just involve sitting in a different chair.
sometimes I walk around the block thinking ā¦
Yeah, in the UK we call that skiving
sometimes I use a piece of paper and a pencil ā¦
And whatā¦ hover in the air? Bend over a desk?
sometimes I just use a different chair to give my ass a break
Well buy a decent one and your ass wonāt get sore in the first place.
Jeff posted his review of chairs on the FOURTH OF F*ING JULY and that 90% of those commments have come during a THREE DAY WEEKEND.
Newsflash: there are other countries in the world - the majority of which do not celebrate your national holidays.
The attention to sloth on display here is damn near hypnotic.
Newsflash 2: sitting at a desk working != sloth. However, avoiding work by hiding in the coffee shop is a pretty good example of sloth.
I recently (June 2008) tested extensively the Aeron and the Mirra.
Everyone keep on telling me to go for the aeron, but my body kept telling me to go for the Mirra. Not only was it less expensive it felt a lot better that the agging desing of the aeron. Be sure to get the one with the Seat Depth Ajustment.
As usual Jeff you have read my mind.
Ironically this article was one of the first things I read as I sat in my brand new chair that I bought during the weekend.
As a homeworker I had previously skimped on seating and it was killing my back and ruining my concentration. I had nothing against spending a reasonable amount on a chair - after all I spend 8+ hours a day sat in it - but I couldnāt find anywhere locally that sold Miller or Ergohuman level chairs.
In the end I picked up a nice unlabelled high-level-but-not-designer chair, which is similar in style to the Ergohuman Mesh Chair, but with padding rather than mesh.
I think is called a KH1 Symphony operator chair. Itās very adjustable (seat height/tilt/depth, back height/tilt, headrest height, arms) and was a bargain at 200 (~$393).
For comparison the Ergohuman costs around 380 (~$747) in the UK.
I bought a Nightingale CXO chair two years ago, and I absolutely love it. At the time, I was equipping a home office, and I planned to buy a used Aeron on Craigslist. (I used an Aeron at a previous dot-com, and it seemed quite comfortable and adjustable.) But I went to The Healthy Back Store, which is a small chain in Washington DC and southern California, and I realied the CXO was a much better choice. It fit my body much better, so it was quite comfortable, moreso than any Aeron. I strongly recommend trying out high-end chairs at a local store, for extended periods of time, as itās the best way to find the right chair for each individual.
Newsflash: there are other countries in the world - the majority of which do not celebrate your national holidays.
That is SO unamerican. Rest of the world, consider yourself on notice!
My goal in life is not to own a million things. It is to own 100 things that I really, truly use and value ā and get rid of everything else. So why not pick a quality chair?