Are Design Patterns How Languages Evolve?

Paul Graham's essay Revenge of the Nerds is a nearly pornographic love letter to Lisp. If you can manage to read all the way to the end, there's an interesting footnote buried at the bottom:

This is a companion discussion topic for the original blog entry at:

To me design patterns are to object-oriented code as algorithms are to functional code. A good pattern tells me how to create a object or a set of objects to accomplish a given task.

Could a Langauge be extended to support patterns better? Sure. A langauge can be also be extended to make certain algorithms easier to use. Perl, python, ruby, etc make certain types of algorithm very easy to use that would require a fair amount of coding in basic, c++, or pascal.

Nitpick: it’s “Perl”, not “PERL”. See perldoc -q ‘“perl” and “Perl”’. :slight_smile:

I tend to agree with Paul Graham and Jeff Atwood, in that design patterns are implementations of functionality that should be in the language (implemented in the compiler / interpreter) but that are instead implemented over and over in the programs themselves. The reason these things don’t change very quickly is because only certain people have access to make these kinds of changes in most languages. PG argues that in Lisp you have the option to make those changes yourself, and thus the patterns vanish into the language.

The barriers are that (1) most programmers don’t see the patterns or know how to implement them better in their chosen language and (2) that they don’t even have the option to change them. Now, standardizing a language does have its benefits, like being able to read someone’s code without having to know how they’ve changed their dialect, though I think that is mitigated with good design of the dialect. Again, it requires good design on the part of the programmer and some people don’t trust other programmers to be able to do that. So, “closed” languages don’t evolve nearly as quickly as they could if we had more community involvement. Basically, whoever put out the language is responsible for integrating the additions to the language. This is one place where English actually has an advantage over most programming languages, you can just make your change in English and as long as everybody understands you (maybe people you talk with often help you develop your own internal dialect) that becomes part of the language.

The question then becomes how can you make a language that is easy to extend. Lots of discussion has been put forth on this topic, but the consensus involves more powerful programming constructs (closures, first class functions, anonymous methods, etc.) along with some mechanism for extension (macros or meta programming). Giving the programmer these tools at least gives them the option of extending the language, though not all programmers are capable (or want to deal with) the challenges of extending their own language.

One idea to overcome this challenge is to create a senior position that is in charge of extending the language for your project, and everybody else uses the dialect of the language that is produced. At least then the programmers can concentrate on getting the program done using the abstractions that someone else is making for them, and they don’t have to know how the underline mechanisms of language extension work. Imagine if there was someone on your team that you could go to in order to request changes to your language that would make things easier, or that would design domain specific languages specific to your problem space so that you can more easily create the program. Doesn’t that sound more productive?

Maybe this is an educational problem in that we need to train programmers better so that they understand the concepts involved in producing their own language, allowing them to extend the language of their choosing easily.

This is a simplification.

It is not only about design patterns, but also about thinking patterns. And with thinking patterns, being humans, we tend to strive for simplicity, or beauty (however you denote it) - but also for “powerful” constructs. It will ultimately be why perl will fall away slowly (slow because languages never die quickly)

This thinking pattern reason is why OOP was such a huge success (and I refer to OOP more in the sense of smalltalk or even Obj-C, than in the C++ tradition, although even there it had big benefits despite how many people may hate the complexity of C++)

The reason Lisp never dominated the world was because Lisp never admits that it actually has warts. Lisp may win people when most people use C (like, 100 years ago), but now that we have ruby and python, which evolve seemingly a LOT faster than Lisp does (nevermind that splitted communities are bad for a language too), continuing past strategies in the lisp community seems like a loss-loss situation.

I dont think lisp will gain many new followers since the level of competition has raised a lot the last 10 years.

My original take on Design Patterns, when I read the first GoF book, was that they solved problems created by the programming language (C++), not the customer. The list of Design Patterns is a list of things that are awkward to do in C++ and many Object Oriented programming languages.

That this was not obvious to everybody and is just now being discovered by many people is very depressing.

Hi she!

I don’t think that Python and Ruby are really able to evolve that fast to catch up with Lisp. It seems to me, that they will tend towards Lisp but will never have the power and flexibility of Lisp.

There is some other problem with Lisp why it failed, but not that you say.

Hi Victor,

I don’t see what is so hard to figure out with Lisp. Python is geared to be a beginner’s language with a bunch of goodies. It is geared to be the language that you can use to accomplish almost anything as long as you don’t mind the lack of speed. Being as such, it has tons of libraries already made that are ready to go. Python itself isn’t splintered (well, it wasn’t until 3k came along) and being as such, there is a large community to help you if need be. Lisp on the other hand, is the language that people go to if they are experts. So on one hand you have the majority of people programming to get stuff done, and on the other hand you have self proclaimed experts because they know how to use a language from the 50s.

blue, the “experts” don’t consider themselves experts because they know a language from the 50s, they were experts, and started using Lisp because they were hitting limitations in the languages they were using.

I think Clojure is finally an accessible and practical Lisp, as it runs on the JVM, and can therefore use any library written for the JVM, as well as integrate nicely with other projects written in Java or other JVM languages.