Dude, Where's My 4 Gigabytes of RAM?

people any one out there PLEASE HELP ME

i have intel Pentium D - 955x at 3.4 Ghz
GeForce 9800 GX2 ( Black Edition )
4 x 1 GB ram 667
Windows Vista Ultimate 32-Bit

my PC is telling me i only have ( 1790 MB of RAM )
befor i instaled the GX2 i had ( 1500 MB of RAM )

what the (F) is going on here
i tried messing around in the BIOS still nothing
i checked the GX2 and nothing there
can any one tell me what is going on or what can i do to fix this problem

in my BIOS this is what i see concerning my Memory

Bass memory 640-k
Extended memory 4192256-k
Total memory 4193280-k

HELP

Switching to 64bit doesn’t necessarily mean you get more RAM. Well, it does, but you also use more RAM. 64 bit address space means 64 bit pointers, so your pointers are now twice as large, which means your applications will use more memory. I’m a Java developer, Java applications use on average 30-40% more memory on 64 bit JVMs than on 32 bit JVMs. So, if you had 3GB of RAM, and upgraded to 4GB, and switched to a 64 bit operating system, you would actually end up in a worse off situation. So until I need 64GB of RAM, or 4GB of virtual address space for a single application, I’m sticking to 32 bit.

hmm… Mores law…
About 30years ago 640kb was enough for everyone.
Shouldn’t that mean that the 64bit addressing range will be full in 15 years? no wait… ^20… =10 years?

Moore’s law is an exponential law…adding a bit is an exponential increase.

640 KB is addressable by 20 bits.

Right now we’re at the edge of 32 bits, so we’ve added 12 bits in 30 years.

To add another 32 (to reach 64) would then take (30 years)*(32/12) = 80 years assuming exponential increase.

Mark Russinovich has put together a much deeper answer to this question. A great read:

http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2008/07/21/3092070.aspx

AppleInsider has a good rundown on how Mac OS X and Windows compare (and a historical overview of memory addressing) in Road to Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard: 64-Bits at:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/08/26/road_to_mac_os_x_10_6_snow_leopard_64_bits.html

Appleinsider for a comparison? How stupid is that? Mac OSx in 64-bits has been shown to not be FULLY 64-bit. So this article is wrong.

Also, folks, the 4 gig limit is not an OS problem. It’s a hardware design problem. The addressing ability of the CPU and chipsets have most always supported only 4 gig in 32 bits processing modes. Please for God’s sake, get a clue!

Also, folks, your OS IS accessing all 4 gig. 4 gig of addressing space, not 4 gig of memory. The CPU and chipset have to access the memory for all devices in your systems. That includes the memory for controllers, ports, and video cards. If you put a 512 megabyte video card in your system, that will eat up 1/2 a gig of memory space, reducing the amount of RAM available to the OS, ANY OS that runs in 32-bit space.

Microsoft recently went the way that Apple did. The OS now reports how much ram is in the system, no matter how much of it can be used or not. Happy now, idiots? You forced these companies to LIE!

And the 640K limit was 20 years ago, not 30. And it too was a hardware enforced limit, not OS caused. Gees!

Here’s the real dirt:

This is wrong: As far as 32-bit Vista is concerned, the world ends at 4,096 megabytes… the Windows memory manager is limited to a 4 GB physical address space. Most of that address space is filled with RAM, but not all of it. Memory-mapped devices (such as your video card) will use some of that physical address space, as will the BIOS ROMs.

The problem is not in Windows memory manager, it’s in the hardware. Since the design of 32-bit based systems, the addressing ability of the majority of these systems was 4 gigabyte. Basically that all the physical space that was expected to be needed when the chips and chipsets were designed. So Windows and all other OSes were originally designed to meet this.

It’s not a dirty little secret either. It was in the design specs from day one.

What even makes matters worse, is that even if you do run a 64-bit OS, there is no guarantee the hardware will still allow access to a full 4 gig of memory. I’ve installed 64-bit Vista on some machines that had a 4 gig memory limit, to find out it was a hard limit and the system still did not allow access to the RAM underneath the video and other devices. It was a BIOS and chipset limit, not OS limit. As is with all other machines in 32-bits.

Here’s proof: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-history,1986-3.html

This is the specs for the original 386 chip from Intel. Memory address limit: 4096, 4 gigs! That is what Microsoft had to deal with, and it has stuck over the years. So blame Intel if you need to cast blame.

And it continued through the years:

486: 4 gig limit: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-history,1986-4.html

Pentium: 4 gig limit: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-history,1986-5.html

Pentium2 addressed 64 gig, but then Intel went back to 4 gig on the P3!!! http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-history,1986-7.html

Pentium 4: 4 gig limit: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-history,1986-10.html

This trend finally broke hard with the later versions of the P4 chips when they started to support 64-bits:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-history,1986-12.html

BUT! That was only in native 64-bit processing mode. When the chip was running in 32-bit mode it still could only access 4 gig.

SO WHY BLAME THIS ON VISTA!!! It’s not MS’s fault It was a trend started by Intel 15 years ago with the original 386 chip.

SO HOW TO FIX??? Stop using 32-bit OSes, and go full 64-bit. Eventually the market will get a clue and start supporting the consumers in their purchases of newer technology and move ahead in the field of larger memory addressing spaces.

Wish I had done more research before installing XP 64 on the new machine. I am having the same issues as many others: unable to find drivers for devices, programs won’t load, no 64 bit version of zone alarm, the list goes on and on. And I just got this back on the internet. Going to start over with the 32 bit XP Pro and wait a few years until the software writers catch up with my new hardware.

The problem is not in Windows memory manager, it’s in the hardware…
SO HOW TO FIX??? Stop using 32-bit OSes, and go full 64-bit.

If you are able to address the whole thing with a 64bit OS installed, you can conclude that the limitation is NOT in the hardware.

If Microsoft didn’t criple the pae kernel in vista/xp, these versions could do it too just fine.

Let’s take an example: Intel 3 series motherboard

Technical sheet found from http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/316966.pdf says that chipset has 36-bit host bus addressing(supporting 64GB host address space). So if I got everything right that would be meaning: With 64-bit operation system I would be able to use address space of 64GB’s. Meaning I would be able to use 64GB-xGB of RAM. Where x is addresses used by memory mapped devices? It would also be meaning that I am not able to use full 64-bit address space but 36-bit address space solves the 4GB problem.

So here we have hardware(motherboard) using non 32-bit host bus addressing?

Please, correct me if I am total wrong here.

Feel free to e-mail me:
honksu[REMOVE-THIS-SPAM-BREAK][AT]gmail[DOT]com

To get the most speed out of dual channel memory access, 2 sticks are faster than 4, due to bank switch latency. Therefore, 2 sticks of 2 GB each, is the best you can get.

Mac OS X can remap MMIO.

To get the most speed out of dual channel memory access, 2 sticks are faster than 4, due to bank switch latency. Therefore, 2 sticks of 2 GB each, is the best you can get.

Not true. If two sticks performs better than four, it is due to other things.

So if it’s a limitation to a 32bit OS, them why do 32bit Server operating systems see 8 to 32 gigs of ram - how are they getting around it.

Siggy

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Hello,
I do really agree with all your previous and clarifying explanation of the mem usage that the OS does.
All but the conclusion.
Conclusion is

  1. if you are going to stick with a 32 bit system DO waste money on 4GB but do not feel deceive by the store or the arquitecture if the only memory you could use is 3.2 GB (if you buy 3GB you only be able to use 2,4GB) just rember the IO and all mem devices.
  2. Purchase a brand new 64 bit system until year 2060 when TeraBytes got depracated and you will start asking around where are my 8TB of memory?

:wink:

Hi, I just read this exhausting WiKi on this and here is my two cents. ok, assume you have the hardware to do the 64 bit code. why can’t one of you experts come up with a way to do 64 bit mem addressing for win XP 32, or Vista 32 till the dingle berries get off there back’s and fix the 64 bit stuff. Is it so hard to make a fix. so we can use this supper cheap ram, come on I can fit 8GB in my machine and I can get it for $100.00. I don’t want to buy Vista 64 bit if for any other reason then I just spent several hundred a year ago on Vista Profesional and I don’t want to give them any more money

I thought I was being slick. I built my own computer for gaming, NVIDIA 680 SLI motherboard, two NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT SLI graphic cards, Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q66’s @ 3.05GHz, 4 matched CM2X 1024- 6400C4 Corsair EEC memory sticks. I got fans on 2 750 gig HD’s, fans on the chip sets, fans on the memory, 2 140mm fans on a 1000 watt Thermaltake Power Supply.Samsung 305t 30 monitor. Altec 400 watt sound system. 2 DVD burners and 2 players. Using Vista Home Premium. New printer, new scanner. Heck a new desk. I mean everything I could think of to make a fast, cool running, bulletproof system that would not be useless in 6 months. And at idle 44% to 46% of the on board memory is used. I even have my Windows rating up to 5.9. Whats a fella to do to improve things?