Keyboarding

Ok, here is my $.50

  • What keyboard areas are “sacred” to you, as a developer?

A absolute must: Ins-Del-Home-End-PgUp-PgDn cluster untouched - being 3 cols by 2 rows with no surrounding ‘multimedia’ keys and having enough space. And, of course, arrow keys must be located in proper place and shaped as inverted T.

Preffered: Functional keys better be full-sized. Backspace is big, backslash located directly below it.

  • How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep, calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff frequently? Rarely? Never?

Not important at all, I’m too adapted to hotkeys. However since I’ve bought my last keyboard (see details below) I use one or two keys to popup/hide WinAmp.

  • Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?

What is the reason for having one? I wonder how someone could type in code sitting on a sofa 3 meters away from monitor :slight_smile:

  • Does an ergonomic layout help?

Not in my case - I sill prefer plain layout.

  • What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?

The absolute champion for me is Genius SlimStar PRO (http://www.genius.hu/kepek/bill/nagy/SlimStar-Pro.jpg). It has really convenient notebook-style keys. And, of course, all the properties I’ve mentioned above :slight_smile:

Thanks

I’m not a shill, but Best Buy has the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 in today’s (1/21/07) Sunday ad for $29.99, down from $59.99. I had already purchased one on eBay for $19 ($34 after shipping) just a few days ago. I may re-sell the one from eBay, or keep both, just to have a spare. I haven’t decided yet. FWIW, I owned the original Microsoft Natural Keyboard (IIRC, the first keyboard with the “reserved for future use” Windows key.) in the pre-Win95 days. I still have it in storage, although it’s become quite discolored over the years. The difference between this keyboard and the Natural Pro that was discontinued in '01 was the row of blue keys at the top, which were missing on the original.

Thanks for that. I immediately went to Best Buy and bought a new ergo 4000 keyboard (the one I bought back in May 2006 was returned and I purchased a different one) for $30.

This is a nice keyboard…very quiet. I like an audible click so I programmed a button to turn a click sound on and I programmed another button to turn it off. I used Clickey from http://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm which is really awesome.

Our host seems to like it too!
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000400.html

It’s the new standard :slight_smile: I spent weeks reading about keyboards, and trying them, and settled on this, after a lot of false starts. I had to buy it sight-unseen, after looking in vain in 3 countries for a shop that stocked one (I was travelling anyway) Best gamble ever.

Man. Thanks Jeff for the pointer to the g15 last November. (I kinda forgot to check back here for a while). It looks great. I’m going to order one from Newegg ($69). Sahweeeet!

I’ve tried a lot of keyboards and I’ve been consistently disappointed with most of the rubber dome crap that’s shipped these days. However, I’d like to point out a possibility that no one has mentioned. I realize that you’re Windows and PC-oriented most of the time and that you also prefer an ergo/split keyboard, but I’ve been really happy using a plain Mac wired keyboard. It’s USB and works just fine through KVM switches. It feels very nice and does not have the frilly surroundings that most of the newer “internet” keyboards do.

Something to consider: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=BBE51B76nplm=M9034LL%2FA

One very important thing for me is the ‘Ctrl’ key is positioned extreme bottom left… I bought a slim line that had the ‘Fn’ and ‘Ctrl’ keys were inverted and have lost count of the times a selected piece of text is replaced by the letter ‘c’ rather than being copied. Guess I should be thankful that ‘Fn + C’ is not ‘format drive’ or something…

What keyboard areas are “sacred” to you, as a developer?

ALL OF IT! Do not remap my keys, add keys or buttons within the 101,2,4 key layout(exception-stick mouse) They get in the way. I had one with 3 media keys below delete end and page down and I got rid of it after 45 minutes, and 4 reboots where I hit Power instead of Delete.

How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep, calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff frequently? Rarely? Never?

never

Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?

I can see the point in my work, where the wiring is often constrained beyond a reasonable measure, but at home, no. For a media center used in a home theater maybe.

Does an ergonomic layout help?

Resounding NO! I have no problems with extended typing(in “correct” and otherwise positions with my home keyboard, some with standard pos keyboards, and much pain with “ergonomic” splts. If I could put the ergo split to an angle which worked for me it might be different.

What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?

You have heard from one fo my ilk before. I fall squarely into the “Russian 10 lb” keyboard which doubles as a blunt instrument and works after a double homicide category. Best part:keyboard previously referred to as Russian which says “Made in the USA” on it. I have gone through a total of 1 and am on the second. The first was a used keyboard from a university used equipment center(read heavy use pre me) and started with sticking everything on the right due to cola. Some cleanup later and it worked for years. I have one now I got for $3 from a used computer store, and after a couple of showers(yes, literally. it’s easier than the dishwasher) and 2 days drying upside down it works great. I would also recomomend a previously mentioned mechanical with the IBM trackpoint in it. I used a Thinkpad for quite some time and prefer the joystick to a glidepad or mouse.

I admit to only estracurricular programming at this time, I too am a phone monkey, so at work I have various MS n"ERGO"keyboards with the jacked arrows and ins, del… We also have the cheapest of the free standard keyboards seeded thruought the call center. The job should be 75%-95% entering data and using keyboards to move, but due to poor upper managment and client decisions, we use as the primary account review program a .swx file!. Needless to say I spend a disproportionate amount of time using the mouse. Also, having used the “ergo” ms keyboards I find theat they cause my wrists to hurt very quickly(10-20 min concentrated typing) wheras the pos boards it is 3-4 hours, and with the aforementioned home keyboard have been known tot ype between 20 and 50 wpm for 13 straight hours with no pain, discomfort, or other issues.

If I had the money the Datahand is something I would like to try. Last time I checked, the home version was just shy $1,000.00. It seems to me one of about 3 methods for truely ergonomic keyboarding. The things I think are needed to be truely ergonomic are to adjust for different hand sizes, adjust for different shoulder widths, adjust for different default wrist angles. The ergonomic keyboard from microsoft(all I have used, from expensive to cheap) have NO ADJUSTABILITY! This means they cannot accomodate the differences inherent with someone of a different shoulder width or arm length. I am sure there was a lot of work done to figure ot the angles which woudl be best for the average person, and that for the average size and shape person they should work fine. I am built larger than that, and use of them(except for the numeric keypad, which has no changes other than the built in wrist wrest) honestly causes me pain after a short time. Well, I seem to have wandered, sorry about that.

You REALLY gotta have a laptop for a comfortable keyboard. The thinkpads have all the keys in the right place (even the Pg/del/home group so often “conveniently removed” from smaller keyboards). Plus, it has the short keys to help speed up typing speed, with the mouse (however unneeded) right in the middle of the keyboard! I do very much so agree that the keyboard should be able to be used for all purposes, I also believe that programs and utiilities need to be quick to access. So all computer should have thier most often used programs mapped to keys. (firefox was opened with winkey-period)

I highly recommend the Logitech G15 gaming keyboard… it’s affordable, not mangled, has no “f-lock” that makes so many of us mad… and also has programmable macro keys at the left hand side of the keyboard. these macro keys are great for software development/debugging/etc. and can also be used in 3 different modes and set up with profiles for specific applications
also has a built in monochrome lcd pixel based display which you can use to display system resources… what’s playing on your favourite media player, (you can even code your own applet for the lcd panel), you can even use it to disable those annoying windows keys if you switch it onto “gaming” mode… The adjustable illuminated backlight lets you code in any lighting situation.

Not only does it look very cool, it is very functional, not mangled, and has extra features people can actually USE.

As both a software dev and a gamer, I use every function on this keyboard and I’m sure you all will too…

Again… I highly recommend the Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard.
Retails for about $50-80 USD
It’s great for a gamer and for the same
http://gregory.drabble.club.fr/g15.jpg

If you like the old Soviet Era layout and feel, but want USB and availability:
Take a look at the keyboard that come bundles with the Wyse winterm 1200’s:
Micro switch keys, solid feel, proper layout, and a built in PS2 port to stick a mouse in.

I do however rate the old SUN 5c’s though, if you like non-flimsy keyboards, find someone with an old Sparc and check one out. I think there are adapters available for them to connect to pee-cees.

As a Flex UI engineer, and an avid reader, please let me suggest that in the future you gather real arguments before wholly discrediting Flash as a platform.

I was really quite surprised by your backhanded remark. Not everyone is still making circa-1996 splash intros you know.

hello from Stephen D Waner to all who read and write in the mirror image from right to left, the medical term is called Strephosymbolia,
i have been in the process of prototypeing a keyboard that is to my range of vision, as of 1990 after a TBI i suffered from this as well as Daltonism (color blindness), if this strikes an intrest then visit
www.arkayengravers.com and check out the STREPHO-VIEW keyboard, the concept was so easy that i thought if it worked for me why not others,
swaner1@cox.net

check out the strepho-view keyboard at www.arkayengravers.com or google key word dyslexic keyboard , strephosymbolia , keep in mind that this board is for those who read and write in the true mirror image

I have a late 90s Compaq keyboard. It’s got the Windows keys and everything else like a normal keyboard, except the spacebar. The spacebar is split in two, about a 2:3 split, the right side is space, the left side is backspace!
The best mangled keyboard I’ve ever used! I frown each time I tap the left side of the spacebar on normal keyboards and a space comes out.
The keyboard can also swap the space-backspace bars and turn into a normal keyboard by using a key combination.

As for normal keyboards, I prefer the kind with the wide backspace, and the wide \ under the backspace.

What keyboard areas are “sacred” to you, as a developer?
Delete, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, Symbols such as {}!";

How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep,
calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff
frequently? Rarely? Never?
The only multimedia keys I use often are Volume Up/Down and mute. I would probably also use Play/Stop and Back/Forward buttons, but not very often. Any other keys aren’t terribly useful.
I mainly use linux anyway and already have keyboard shortcuts to start all my often used software and all without leaving the main keyboard (windows+t = terminal and so on) while multimedia keys make me have to reach.

Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?
Yes, it matters because I will not use a wireless keyboard. They are more hassle than their worth.

Does an ergonomic layout help?
Either is fine.

What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?
None right now. I’m currently using a Saitek gamers keyboard. It’s nice and heavy, has a big space bar, the function keys are a little closer to the main keyboard than most keyboards (which I like, makes it easier to press F5 for compile or whatever). It only has 3 multimedia keys (volume and mute) and a backlight on/off button.
It’s nice, but it could still be a lot better.

I couldn’t agree more. Quit screwing with my Nav keys! Some people actually need that stuff.

I would add one more criteria, which is key size. I can span an octave with my thumb and index finger. A lot of the newer keyboards have keys that are way too small for me.

I’m sticking with my MS Natural, designed for Windows 95. When the last one gets broken, I guess I’ll find another career.

I’m currently using this keyboard:
http://www.enermax.com/english/product_peripherals_detail.asp?PrID=48

I really like notebook style keys for 2 major reasons: tactile feedback and raw speed (from the low profile key travel).

Companies like razer are starting to pick up on the speed preference when it comes to keyboards like: http://www.razerzone.com/index.php?main_page=product_infoproducts_id=76

Unfortunately, I don’t really like membrane keyboards (which is like 90% of the boards out there). The reason I don’t like membrane keyboards is because they always loose consistency with the keys. Some keys eventually get too stiff others will get too loose, and keys that feel “spongy” are the worse because your fingers don’t feel a pressure “click” so you don’t know when the key is actually engaged.

I use the saitek eclipse keyboard, mostly because i still game, the only added functionality it has is volume control, but i don’t even use that.

Plus it glows in the dark.

The pgup/pgdown area isn’t mangled…its not ergonomic though. I’ve been thinking about upgrading my mouse / keyboard for a bit, im still using the old microsoft laser mouse…although the rubbery gliders on the bottom have literally rubbed away.

Hi all the intelligents

I liked the discussion above and found it useful.
I have read all this today only and I have something for you
"Hermann Klinke on February 11, 2005 09:32 AM ".
You said that you didn’ find a shortcut for cut on right side
it is: shift+del
and other useful shortcuts on the right side are: alt+backspace for undo operation and shift+alt+backspace for redo operation.

though I don’t have as much knowledge like all here but I think there is one more keyboard to consider.
It is quite compact and has home,pdup,pgdn and end keys on the right side and an inverted t aroow keys on right corner just like the scroll bars in msword.The keyboard is of a company probably you would have never heard of. it is ENTER. the model no. is AS-2188. It is designed for win 98 but works fine even on windows Vista. It is a USB keyboard.

A funny feature of it is that it does not have a ctrl key on the right. But in its place it has a key which acts as a right click of your mouse which I found useful and quite speed gaining. you don’t have to go to the mouse for anything. Its really good.

Davneet Singh Chawla