See You at EclipseCon!

Good programmers are interested in everything

Over-generalize much? There are a vast number of things I don’t give a shit about. Somehow that effects my programming ability?

He may claim it, but he hasn’t shown it. IIRC, he said in a previous blog post, when they were discussing stackoverflow’s infrastructure, the requirement was that it had to be on Windows. I could be wrong.

I’m just pointing out what seems to be a bit of hypocrisy on the part of Jeff. I didn’t mind that he was windows-centric as long as he never made the claim to be telling other programmers(specifically FOSS) that their world is too limited and he knew the answers.

See my issue here? He talks a lot about Windows specific applications, servers, and infrastructure, and then claims to know what the right way to go is to Eclipse developers, and in the same sentence calls it a ghetto.

Thats hypocrisy.

He means this:

(…) despite my personal background, we always intended Stack Overflow to be a tribute to the greater craft of programming, a place where you could rub shoulders with fellow programmers from all sorts of different backgrounds and professional interests (…)

It pains me to see developers who let themselves get locked into some particular toolchain ghetto, without at least peripheral awareness of what else is going on in the programming world around them.

You mean such as yourself? I’ve never seen you say you’re using anything other than your beloved Microsoft products for any of your work.

I’m not so sure it’s that this Clay fellow is a genius, it’s more that he’s kept up with advancements. He can just verbalize the thoughts more eloquently.

Nearly anyone in their early 20s/late teens can tell you that the internet has become extremely social in the past several years, and that (especially with the widespread use of Bittorrent) it is reshaping media consumption in a way that cannot be stopped, that the main producers don’t like (Ex, RIAA, MPAA).

Sigh… I loved DDJ. Shame they finally went under.

Well, I read the book, and I could barely put it down. An excellent read for anyone whose primary professional purpose is designing modern, relevant web sites for organizations.

One thing I will say: Web 2.0 is not a UNIVERSAL solution. The web is good for a lot more than spontaneous, low cost group forming. If you read Shirky’s book, you’ll have an excellent idea of when to talk up a network community, and when to talk the client down off the ladder before they spend a ton of money on something that will never be used.

Both of these (Jeff and Clay) guys are smart, they have a lot of experience, and they rub shoulders with the giants in the industry. They can also write well. Regardless of the technical details, they’re a springboard for ideas and further research. On occasion, their writing is the right tool for the right job. It’s going to be a great talk. Hopefully the transcripts will be available to those of us who cannot attend!

@Demian Garcia - Agreed - but I was talking about Good programmers. Sure you can be a good generalist, but you will never write the optimised code that comes from understanding in depths the specifics of a particular paradigm, say… SQL Server. For instance, a good generalist might write fantastic LINQ code for SQL Server that works very well. BUT the best LINQ code is still going to run like a dog comparied to not using LINQ, accessing stored procedures directly (there been a fair bit published on this now, so I won’t go into this further - if you believe I am wrong, do a search on google or better still do your own tests).

My point is that you have to get fully into the SQL server world to learn all the ins and outs - what gets performance happening and the different constraints with different data sizes and types. And you can’t keep up on all of that and also keep up to the same degree on My SQL, Oracle, DB2, etc. You HAVE to become specialised and move into a getto if you are to get the type of solid performance needed in an enterprise system.

I have TOO much information to learn about MS Dynamics AX, SQL Server and C# (let alone all the specifics of each of these) to give a rats a$$ what’s happening in the world of Java. There are only so many hours in the day and if I am going to become good at my job I have to put my energies into the task at hand. The only peripheral awareness I get is from the odd blog, and as cited here many times, that is very MS centric anyway.

There was only one complaint I have about you. (IMO) You life as if there is nothing outside the Microsoft World (except occasional talks, like the recent one about Google Chrome).

I hope this I have with you becomes I HAD with you soon, Jeff@Eclise con does sound a start for that…

Here, we have a guy (…) try to get those FOSS developers to see outside their ‘ghetto’

Did I read another blog post than you? Jeff never said it were the FOSS guys who are stuck in a ghetto. .NET can be a ghetto all of it’s own…

(…) like he’s the savior bringing The Light to the poor huddled masses.

Yes, he sometimes has that tendency, and I don’t like it very much either. But even though his professional background is 99% MS, his preachings have always been platform agnostic.

Isn’t Eclipse slow?.

For all you people going to EclipseCon…

Please tell IBM not to kill Netbeans if they buy Sun :slight_smile:

Eclipse = bloatware

Don’t use it! That is, unless, of course, you like running a slow machine. Actually, I’m not a big fan of Java-based applications in general. They just slow down the machine. Just give me a good ol’fashioned comparable C/C++ compiled binary app any day. It’ll run circles around its Java equivalent.

Thanks for the link to Shirky’s essay on newspapers. It is very insightful and answers some questions that have been lurking in the back of my mind. It has been a while since I’ve read anything with that much scope.

I hope this conference moves Eclipse forward: I use it everyday.

Jeff just tried one of the oldest, and lamest, tricks in the book: Heaping endless praise on someone that you’re associated with with the intention of actually praising yourself. This guy is the greatest guy in the whole wide world. He’s so super brilliant. Oh, and wouldn’t you know it I’ve been selected to speak alongside him…so…you know…draw your own conclusion. And Shirky is yet another grossly overrated internet figure whose writings don’t hold up to critical analysis, but they’re just deep enough for lazy readers to link and say This is just SOOOOOOO brilliant. And I’m brilliant for linking to it and saying it’s brilliant.

Enjoyed your talk at EclipseCon, nice job.

It wasn’t my method that sucked. I was mocking Jeff. Jeff implied that since many results were returned for EE sucks that it must mean it sucks.

It’s just good to know that there are people and organisations out there who won’t take the unethical tactic of calling their opposition evil (without examples nor explanation) and they calling their own company and products saviours.

Oh so much hate going on in the posts…

Doesn’t anyone weigh the articles on their content?
Sure there may be bias from the author… expect it!

Just because Jeff swims in the MS-centric world
(think water, not sewage please), that doesn’t make his
message less valid to me.

Enjoyed the talk at EclipseCon, will you be posting the slides anywhere?