There are other areas that should make an engineer feel uncorfortable, shame or however you want to call it: let’s say the engineer who designs stuff for the military industry… I hate that hipocresy… sex makes adults feel unconfortable but we love it… but if you design stuff for military industry… you’re cool… come on!!!
I’m no prude.
I beg to differ. You almost define it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudery). ‘adult entertainment’, ‘porn’, ‘escorts’; whatever you want to call it, as long as it’s a legitimate business with interesting problems (and I might remind you that MANY businesses in reputable fields are FAR from legit), it’s a good place to work.
I worked for an adult company (toy reseller) and it was a great place to work for/with.
Porn is like an addiction. Taking that kind of job is no less worse than selling narcotics. It’s probably worse because it eventually leads to rape, child pronography, destroys marriages, disrespects women, etc., etc.
I can’t help but think that it seems very American to target adult entertainment that hurts nobody over military contracts.
If I’ve ever got a job in the porn industry, I’d expect my mates to arrive at my place with a six-pack, high fiving me and then asking me if I could arrange for them to meet any porn stars.
Jeff, if you were jobless, broke, poor, and going to lose your internet connection because you couldn’t afford the bill, and you got offered a programming job in the adult entertainment industry, don’t act like you wouldn’t take it. Saying so redefines the word prude.
Oh, and I’d bet any amount of cash that you’ve watched some porn in the last week. Ha!
Who wants to bet that a few days from now there will be a It was all a troll and you all fell for it! article basically taking it all back ?
Can someone who worked for a defense contractor talk about something for a second, without going into classified material? (heck if you do, that’s alright by me) But I’m curious… since I’ve never worked for one I wouldn’t know… but aren’t many of you that have putting this subject at the level of the likes of Fenyman? I mean, he was a major part, if not THE major part, in the atom bomb… now, the U.S. hasn’t tested them, (so they say) since 1992 - but we know they haven’t actually been used since the 1940’s on Japan.
What I’m saying is basically, what makes you feel uncomfortable about such a position? After all, you’re not the one using it- but granted, your software could be used to kill hundreds, but it could also save thousands, right? So in that sense there’s a tradeoff. I guess my point is, (again, without first hand knowledge) - isn’t it the responsibility of those actually in power to use your software wisely? You helped your country- isn’t that what matters? I would think it’s the politicians that should be at blame, and therefore kicked out of power, for using your software maliciously… no? (then again, we all know how politicians can be, but I’d still like to get your opinion on this)
Only in the US you would have to lie about what you do for a living, that is, if your work in the adult industry. I cannot make sense of the fear of nudity and sex, mos def because the US were founded by missionaries from the christian church.
Good points made regarding the missiles and insurance industries… and I think we can all agree that porn gets the worst nod is largely due to exposure. Type in the wrong search keyword and you’ve got it flying at you everywhere. I doubt the same would happen in regard to missile guidance systems and we don’t get to see (or at least bored by) the effects of the crooks in the insurance industry.
@Jeff, I’m amazed you actually don’t see this - but you are in fact, a prude. You’ve taken yet another turn for the worse, begging the questioning why I continue to come here… but after this thread, it’s more evident the comments make for the best discussion, because clearly you’ve lost your logic and reasoning ability so much to not be able to see how prudish you actually are. I’m still confused over how you managed to perceive the general tone of that quote- it was quite clear to me, touching on real-world problems… and yet you color it with your prudish attitude. I first started reading your blog in 2005, but by 2007-2008 I started to lose respect for you- way to shine again.
I can’t help questioning the ultimate value of that work - I can’t help questioning the ultimate value of gazing into your navel. Why don’t you hook up with Steve Pavlina, and the two of you can form a Church of Bloggers (which of the 8 levels are you on?)
All the same, it’s difficult for me to respect software engineering in the service of such least common denominator interests.
What a disgracefully judgemental and biased comment. Who sets you to be the judge of what is a morally responsible and respectable job and of what are morally respectable sexual tastes? I certainly wouldn’t pass judgement on your life in that way. I respect and even admire your blog 99% of the time Jeff, but this is a terribly narrow-minded view to put forth in the world. You usually demonstrate such an objective and balanced view of the world…
Blah what are you doing that’s so great?
The point is that it’s a judgment call everyone has to make for themselves. What’s the impact of your work on the world? Good, bad, I’m the guy with the gun.
Why don’t you hook up with Steve Pavlina, and the two of you can form a Church of Bloggers
That’s just cold, man. Ice cold.
There’s been lots of comments that point out there’s questionable morals everywhere, not just in the adult industry. Everyone has to decide for themselves if working in/for a certain industry sits right with them.
At one point I did website hosting and server admin work. One of those servers belonged to a guy that had a site, two actually, revolving around spanking. Not really porn, but still adult. He was one of the nicest guys I ever worked with, and he enjoyed what he did. So did his customers, because he was raking in money by the truckload. For showing movies of him slapping his girlfriend’s bum, which they both enjoyed. And yes, keeping the server running and extending the site involved interesting stuff.
In the end I think the most important parts of a job are that you are comfortable with what you’re doing, and that the company you work for is a decent one. For me, whether or not they sell porn has nothing to do with that, unless they’re one of those companies that try to install diallers etc. It has to be legal, and it has to be honest, having interesting challenges and cool people to work with are very big plusses. I don’t really care if they sell games, porn, coffee or bicycles.
If my friends would want to be judgemental about that, I think that’s mostly their problem, not mine.
Here here Max
Currently I’m in a job that requires me to do work that is completely legal (according to our lawyers), but morally gray. I took the job because it paid well, and it allowed me to move my family to a better area. I knew the company had a shady reputation, but I figured it was just a job. Do the work, cash the check, go home, enjoy family.
Unfortunately, I’ve come to realize that the company’s shady reputation may be tainting my resume and my chances for future work.
I spent most of last year working on a porn site and had no problems with it, it was well paid and challenging work, it’s right there on my CV, I’m proud of what our small team produced. A month ago I interviewed for a public sector job in the UK, and it became clear I would be just adding to somebody’s headcount in a taxpayer funded quango, with no real prospect of doing enough to justify my salary. To take that job would have been immoral.
(I had a naive view when I applied for the job that I could put in an heroic effort and deliver superb value for money to fellow taxpayers, but it wasn’t going to happen)
There are two potential ethical problems for me when it comes to working porn sites. And one practical problem.
First, and almost certain, is that many porn sites use very shady business practices with their customers. They bill when they should not with the knowledge that many customers will be too embarrassed to contest the rip-off billings. And many of them porn sites are a major source of malware. Both of these practices amount to theft from the consumer.
Second, many (not all) of the images and videos are of people who are drug addicted or otherwise being exploited and coerced.
The practical problem is that if the business owners/managers are willing to deal in an unethical manner with their customers and the subjects of the content, I think it’s highly likely that they’ll eventually deal unethically with me. Think of it this way, you’re out at a restaurant with a prospective employer and they treat the waitron rudely…how long do you think you’ll work for them before they start treating you the same way?
I think I would need to know certain details before I could say for certain, but in principle I wouldn’t have any problem working for an adult site. The material doesn’t offend me and other people’s opinions don’t bother me. The people I deal with daily are more important than the work itself or other’s opinion of the industry.
The one job I had which I wouldn’t take again was building software for personal injury attorneys. I made a lot of money, but I was always dealing with people who were at their happiest when someone got into a serious accident. One went so far as to locate their office at the intersection that had the most recorded car accidents state-wide. Whenever there was an accident he would run outside and give both parties his card. Not call the police or an ambulance, not see if someone needed medical attention, but hand each person a business card and tell them to call him to sue the other person.
I walked away from that job and a very high-paying salary because the people I was helping disgusted me on a daily basis. I now work at a much lower salary working with people I like. It was the right decision for me.
Absolutetly not, without a doubt, would I ever, for any reason, work for such a company.
Everybody does it - is it right?
It’s no different than killing people - is it right?
I knew that times have changed how our culture views morals, ethics, and values, but these comments are quite an eye opener. Nobody really seems to give a rat’s rotunda about such things.
If it meets MY needs (job, money, coding guru status) it’s okay.
I have the utmost respect for those few that said no, I would not work for such a company. Thanks for having values and STANDING up for them!
Better to build on solid ground, then on shifting sand.
Jeff - I’ll step back from that prude comment, but only because people are taking it as an insult. Consider it more of a disagreement?
I mean, at the base level I do agree that it is important to not take a job that is against your morals.
I just disagree with your morals 
but hey, they’re yours, stick to them.