Stack Overflow Careers: Amplifying Your Awesome

“I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, that someone who runs the domain stackoverthrow.com would be disappointed with our latest offering. :)”

Nice one Jeff. that’s a great movie reference. :}

I really like SO - I have had some points of contention and I don;t always agree with you.

I’d also like to point out to the rest of the crowd that the fee for seekers is rather small and can’t be seen as a way for these guys to make money - that is NOT the business model. the purpose of it is to somehow “preqaulify” the candidates so that they can charge high prices for the other side. that is a totally reasonable thing to do - higher quality applicant pools will generate high fees.

My contention is that charging fees, though it may sound good on paper, is actually going to limit the applicant pool from ever having the best applicants and will likely end up lowering the mean “desirability” of the overall searchable applicant pool.

The builders of SO should be able to make money from it. Making improvements in the job matching world is a great idea. I think this piece of that puzzle is broken.

Someone asked if I had any suggestions for improving rather than just complaining or ranting.

well, it is a little difficult without knowing the other (buy) side of the business model. For example - are they paying per search, per search term, per resume, per contact/email? A lot of that is important. Is there really feedback from the other side that says they will only spend X when the applicant search is free, but will spend X+Y when the applicants pay?

The crux is how to maximize overall profit - and I presume SO staff are right in that they want to have some way to make the pool of applicants very desirable. One step is that they are SO users. The next is to figure out how to ensure that hiring companies are not wasting their time on people who are not serious about taking a job offer. One way is to offer very competitive salaries, benefits and great working conditions. That would entice a lot of people who aren’t even looking. Another way would be for people to be on the list initially and through some sort of feedback they would be put at the end of the list if they were found not to be “serious”. People can have the option of paying, and if they don’t want to pay they can throw their hat in the ring so to speak. I would wager that companies will still want to search the database of people who are mildly interested. They might want to spend that extra time fighting for someone or trying to get their attention rather than just taking the people who shelled out the $29/$99.

There is also the inconsistency of the people who spend the $29 or $99 who already found jobs who then DON’T take their name off the list voluntarily - they then fall into the same category of the others who didn’t pay - i would presume that they are off the market and paying companies DON’T want to see them, but yet they paid and they might want to keep their resumes searchable. How is that inconsistency handled?

I don’t know the best way to solve the issue - but I am convinced that this is not the users’ problem to pay for/solve - it for SO and the Buy side to solve.

I agree I wouldn’t pay to host my profile hosted. You would be better off letting the workers host free profiles to increase the pool of potential employees for employers to find. Employers are more likely to look through your site if you have 10,000 resumes instead of 100.

Also, one disadvantage I see to linking your resume to your profile is that a lot of times you ASK questions as well as answer them. A lot people might that this will make them look stupid in the eyes of the potential employer

It’s appropriate as a business to charge what you think is a fair value for a service. The problem here isn’t the fact that StackOverflow is charging for a service, but that they are charging for a service that the market by and large has already set at a price - free.

I can go on virtually any job site I can think of and post my resume for free. In most cases, it would be even MORE beneficial to post my resume there, because the pool of people looking at resumes on those sites is larger than StackOverflow (that may change in the future, but it’s doubtful unless there’s a compelling reason that can overcome the $99/year disincentive for people to post resumes).

It’s a business and charging for a service isn’t inherently evil. Given what they are charging FOR, however, it’s spectacularly dumb.

I am interested to find out if companies would pay more or less for searching ALL of SO resumes or just the ones who pay or ONLY the ones who don’t pay.

If it were me, I’d probably ask how much to do two different searches - the paid ones and the unpaid seekers. If I want someone bad enough I will give it a shot. If they say no, then so be it. At least I will find out what is REALLY out there, not just who was willing to pay $29 or $99 for being in a search result.

I’d say that is an interesting business proposition and someone (or group of someones) can probably get this going pretty simply. I’d rather not make it a pissing contest, but I do think it is interesting - and an oversight on SO’s part in not doing this research (unless perhaps they did already.)

I should also be more fair to Jeff - I suspect much of this is driven by Joel - who has a lot to say and has very specific experiences in the hiring arena.

I don’t really bear any ill will - I am just surprised, as someone else put it in a different blog entry, that SO is basically punting on this because they can’t figure out a better way to solve the problem of “pre-qualifying” candidates.

Agree with most people. It’s misleading. It says free, but you have to pay 29$ US. hummm. This is a show stopper for me.

I only wish the “I’m going to unsubscribe” crowd would go ahead and leave, so we don’t have to hear from them again. I’ve personally gained much, much more than $29 worth of value from SO. If Jeff wants to charge $29 to host a CV for hiring managers, why is that such a terrible thing?

What’s really outrageous about the price is that it’s the usual $xx9 scam

Just treat your buyers with the respect they deserve and say $30. Everyone will be happier :slight_smile:

@Stephen: The issue with the $29 is that SO couldn’t exist without the content its users submit, and now it wants to charge the very same users to host their CV. It’s a case of biting the hand that feeds it.

Sure, charge the employers for access to the data, but not the user. That’s just plain dumb, as most other posters seem to think.

Those who are complaining about the pricing information might do well to read the FAQ (http://careers.stackoverflow.com/faq).

Pricing is

  • free for students (1 year)
  • $29 for three years (promotional, expires 11/9/2009)
  • $99 for one year (post-promotional)

Sounds interesting, Jeff. I’m not sure I have a use for this, but I support it as an endeavor. Good idea charging for the service; I agree that the upfront cost will make the service more attractive to potential employers.

Jeff, did Joel make you right this blog? I knew he’d be a bad and painfully greedy influence!!!

A site where you pay $99 to store your CV, how often do you expect people to change jobs, what part of this is good value for money?

PS. I cringed during Joel’s self promotion bits of DevDays. Bloody salesman!

PPS. Please tell us about your latest cool gadgets you’ve added to your keyring, or how fast and efficient your latest Atom media PC is.

@tim If you need to borrow $29 all you had to do was ask…

What do you get exactly for $29 dollars? In a nut shell you get Jeff and Joel marketing you, simple as that. If Joel and Jeff can convince hiring managers that their service has better developers the illusion becomes real.

The only question to debate here is can they convince hiring managers this.

P.S.
It appears that sub consciously you do want a different job, you just think you dont know it.

01 546 4760 is the number?

Just wondering if there shouldn’t be an area code in there.

I think you’re late to the game Jeff. LinkedIn provides much of the materials one needs to be “found” by the right people, and because it is not exclusively a developer community, you are much more likely to be found by an interesting opportunity.

Also, perhaps it’s time to open Coding Horror up to syndication? Find guys who are 5-10 years younger than you. Let them write compelling technical stories about the state and art of programming with your blessing. Keep your brand, but keep the spirit as well. This property is suffering from lack of attention. Keep it alive!

It’s a mistake to charge job seekers.

Wow, such animosity. Give the guy a break. It takes time and money to build a site like SO. Jeff & co have built a nice competitive advantage and are now trying to monetize it. It makes perfect sense. And the $29 or $99 price keeps out the riffraff who plug the dice.coms of the world and reduce job searching to an acronym matching game.

Here here, Jeff – I applaud both your good business sense, and your choice to use your blog to promote your new venture. How else are you going to promote it? You’ve brought us a lot of great material over the years, it’s the least your readers can do to listen to your new venture. And you are giving your loyal blog readers a chance at a heavy discount, and I for one will take it.

OOPS, reversed the numbers 1.876.8000

Guess I should turn in my math degree card eh?

It might be an idea to show CVs to companies without any contact information for free… then they have to pony up to find out who exactly this person is.

The reason I suggest this is because I can see many companies having an HR department that is in charge of finding applicants. I can also see those HR Managers saying something like this to themselves: “Do I just want to post a job ad on the sites we currently get all of our applicants from and that’s it… or do I want to have pay and do the work to have ANOTHER account on ANOTHER job site, for JUST 1 position?”

And on that note, I suspect that HR people aren’t really in touch with the “what’s what” in the software development world. How would they even know to look for SO? Can you imagine what the world would be like if this became a trend? Trying to find employees on per-industry job boards? And all of the job boards that would compete in single industries?

I’m rooting for it, don’t get me wrong, but call me a skeptic for now.

apparently, my captcha failed… but still posted.

@Johnnylambda - they would get plenty of revenue from hiring companies - there is no reason to charge job seekers. They are not doing it for the revenue - tht is chump change compared to the cost for the other side. The issue is that it is too much and the reason they give is a false reason - you aren’t going to get BETTER applicants - since the better ones can get jobs by word of mouth - they are going to get desperate people

I don’t think anyone objects to Joel and Jeff and their developers making money from something they worked hard to create.

What we object to is what I think is a perception that we’re being deceived, even in just this post. “We’re a community!” “It’s all about you!” “You’re the reason Stack Overflow is such a success!”

And then turn around and try to sell us something.

Again, I hate to use such a crude example, but it would be like a talking to a woman in a bar all night, having her laugh at your jokes, tell you how fun you are, etc., and then say she’ll go home with you for $XX9 dollars. It kinds makes you doubt the sincerity of the previous comments.