# The Rise of the Electric Scooter

**URL:** <https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016>\
**Category:** blog\
**Created:** [September 12, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016 "2019-09-12T07:28:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![pierreville](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/pierreville/32/76281_2.png) [@pierreville](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/pierreville)\
**Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/44 "2019-09-24T14:58:24Z")

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The last year or so, I’ve rediscovered the joys of riding a bike. Very short trips that I used to think were quick in a car are sometimes even _shorter_ on a bike. Plus, free exercise!

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**Author:** ![gabriele\_boccone](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/gabriele_boccone/32/76154_2.png) [@gabriele\_boccone](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/gabriele_boccone)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 8:26am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/47 "2019-09-26T08:26:23Z")

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You sold me.

I knew I had to buy one sooner or later, but I never had the time to go through all the reviews and decide which one, and so on. Thanks for doing that and choosing the right one for me.

When I lived in Italy I used to ride a motorbike to work everyday, but in Austria the weather makes it harder, except for 3-4 months in spring and summer.

So as soon as I’ve read your post, I knew the time has come. People who learn to code on a TI-99/4A can’t be wrong.

Here in Austria the laws are very clear (since July 2019): the little thing is technically a bycicle, and is allowed to do anything a bike can, and it solves many problems.

I used to ride a bike to work in summer, but as the weather gets worse, I started going by bus again.  
Now I ride the little thing every day, it takes 20 min. (average) to travel 5km, I don’t have to care about traffic jams, parking, gasoline… everything is easier, and the damn little thing is _fun_ to ride. Cold weather and light Austrian rain don’t bother me so much as when I ride a bike.

I expected to have some argument with wife when I told her I was going to buy one, but she didn’t say anything. Actually, she is happy that I’m home at least 10 minutes earlier every day (up to 30 or more in case of traffic jams).

The next problem is: my 2 oldest sons use it too, and I think I will have to buy another (or 2) before they get into some physical fight. I don’t like blood stains.

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**Author:** ![MicheleInt](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/micheleint/32/76140_2.png) [@MicheleInt](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/MicheleInt)\
**Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 9:30am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/48 "2019-10-11T09:30:09Z")

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I normally associate the name Scooter with a moped. So I was hoping that this was a discussion on electric mopeds, because now an electric one is in the same price range of the 50 cc.  
In the '80 there were some moped called “tubone” because the frame was a big bent tube. some e-bikes looks suspiciously like some of these, and at least some motorbike maker is selling them. The biggest advantage is their maximum speed is 27 mph, have better brakes, light, and license plate.

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**Author:** ![thw0rted](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/thw0rted/32/36443_2.png) [@thw0rted](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/thw0rted)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 11:52am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/49 "2019-10-18T11:52:06Z")

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I remembered this thread and thought you’d like to know about my recent trip to Spain. I was in a little town outside Barcelona, along the Costa Brava. It’s off peak so there weren’t many beach tourists, and it’s small enough that they didn’t have any of the rental companies operating there, but the place was still bristling with electric scooters.

On the brisk 15 minute walk from our hotel to the town center we must have seen twice as many scooters as bikes – adoption really has picked up that quickly. We saw families where each parent had a scooter with a second set of handles or a Fisher-Price ride-on toy duct taped or zip-tied to the frame, carrying a toddler each. (At least the kids all had helmets!) We probably saw well over a hundred in the two weeks we spent there.

> [@Fredd\_Dagg](#):
>
> Electric bikes will eventually win out and scooter will remain as toys.

I thought this might be the case, that it was a fad that would look as silly in 5 years as 3D TVs do today. That was before my vacation. Now, I’m not so sure. I own an ebike, and frankly it’s addressing a different use case. They’re not in competition, not really. There’s too much overhead, too much inertia, for short, quick trips.

It’s like the difference between email and chat/text. If I just want to say “do you need anything from the store?” I’m not going to go to “all the trouble” of sending an email, but I’ll fire off a quick chat message. The scooter is like that – I wouldn’t bother getting my helmet, unlocking the bike, carrying it outside (the thing weighs a _ton_), finding some place to lock it up when I get there, etc., just to go 4 blocks to the grocery store, but I’d for sure ride a scooter if it’s ready to hand, takes near-zero setup time, near-zero time when I get there, and saves me 10-15 minutes round trip on the walk.

Of course I say all that never having actually ridden one, so take all this as an observation from the outside, and with a grain of salt.

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**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/codinghorror/32/36371_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/codinghorror)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/50 "2019-10-20T21:08:20Z")

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> [@thw0rted](#):
>
> It’s like the difference between email and chat/text

Agreed, this is a good comparison. Scooters are the minimum viable transportation, and they really work!

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**Author:** ![codeoptimist](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/codeoptimist/32/36299_2.png) [@codeoptimist](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/codeoptimist)\
**Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/51 "2019-10-22T17:09:06Z")

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$329.99 [Xiaomi Mi Electric Scooter](https://www.woot.com/offers/xiaomi-mi-electric-scooter-8) 12 hours left

deal reappears about every 1-2 months: [Search results for 'xiaomi mi electric scooter category:10' - Woot](https://forums.woot.com/search?q=xiaomi%20mi%20electric%20scooter%20category%3A10)

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**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/codinghorror/32/36371_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/codinghorror)\
**Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/52 "2019-10-22T17:27:54Z")

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Oh nice and it’s the white one too. Ordered, thanks for the heads up!!

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**Author:** ![Dovid\_HolyBrother](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/dovid_holybrother/32/76337_2.png) [@Dovid\_HolyBrother](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/Dovid_HolyBrother)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/53 "2019-11-01T15:21:48Z")

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I have a Glion scooter 28 pounds. I created a handle device to easily carry it up and down stairs etc. I use it on buses and subways in NYC and keep it in the trunk of my hybrid Camry. I can park anywhere that I am fortunate enough to find parking and use it frequently for short hauls, thus reducing considerably the headaches of owning a car in Brooklyn. Often I also use my kick scooter in the City.  
I also have bikes, and a motocycle style scooter, which I haven’t used at all. Today is my 72nd b’day!

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**Author:** ![Sam\_Gyongyosi](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/sam_gyongyosi/32/76338_2.png) [@Sam\_Gyongyosi](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/Sam_Gyongyosi)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/54 "2019-11-01T18:27:05Z")

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This is such an interesting articles. I find that cars are just such inefficient machines due to their size and weight. Also combustion piston engines are in no way the most efficient. I agree to that we’ve seen large jumps in reliability of scooters in concert with a sharp drop in price. With the Holidays coming people are going to be able to essentially steal these scooters. The slow switch is a great cost saving measure, decreases traffic/congestion, and will play a part in saving the environment. You could save thousands a year by switching from cars to more efficient methods of transport, like scooters!! I found this pretty helpful, [Are Electric Scooters a Cost-Effective Way to Commute? - GOTRAX.com](https://gotrax.com/blogs/news/are-electric-scooters-a-cost-effective-way-to-commute).

 ![image](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/4/846f4adde40efdc9132683d5340d753e88faa4d0.jpeg)

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**Author:** ![JimPas](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/jimpas/32/76163_2.png) [@JimPas](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/JimPas)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/55 "2019-11-02T01:54:05Z")

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> [@Dovid\_HolyBrother](#):
>
> Today is my 72nd b’day!

Happy birthday and welcome to the forum!

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**Author:** ![gdtau](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/gdtau/32/76345_2.png) [@gdtau](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/gdtau)\
**Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/56 "2019-11-07T06:02:44Z")

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I feel my city of Adelaide has scooters about right. The road rules are the same as for bicycles: a helmet is required; they can be ridden on a footpath but pedestrians get absolute right of way (if there’s a crowd then a bike or scooter can’t push it’s way through, they just have to go at walking pace until there’s a way around). The city requires a deposit from scooter and dockless bicycle hire firms: because a lot of these hire firms are funded by venture capital there’s a risk to the city that the firm will “pivot” and the city be left to clean up the mess. The scooter hire firms are required to put lighting on the scooters and to meet some basic understandings about the data their app collects.

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**Author:** ![Legoooolas](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/legoooolas/32/76359_2.png) [@Legoooolas](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/Legoooolas)\
**Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/58 "2019-11-15T14:00:25Z")

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> Technically it wasn’t legal to ride them there _at all?_

Correct. I believe it’s the case that no wheeled vehicles except mobility scooters are permitted on pavements, and e-scooters not road-legal here.

But then, this also covers all kinds of stuff like prams/pushchairs, skateboards, inline skates, etc, but these things aren’t really enforced unless you’re being an idiot. But going “too fast” on an e-scooter is a whole lot easier…

Random article about UK law and e-scooters : [Best Tech Deals | Tech Advisor](https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/buying-advice/gadget/electric-scooter-law-uk-3668712/)

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**Author:** ![Graminik](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/graminik/32/76431_2.png) [@Graminik](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/Graminik)\
**Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/62 "2019-12-31T18:44:36Z")

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Humans need exercise every day. How are you supposed to get that on a scooter, in a car, bus, tram, or train?

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**Author:** ![chiamarc](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/chiamarc/32/76497_2.png) [@chiamarc](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/chiamarc)\
**Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/63 "2020-02-10T18:34:41Z")

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They’re not good for scooters (unless you want to create a CyberScooter a la Tesla!) but my friend George has found a fantastic use for lead-acid batteries…

[https://twitter.com/directedmachin1](https://twitter.com/directedmachin1)

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**Author:** ![JimPas](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/jimpas/32/76163_2.png) [@JimPas](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/JimPas)\
**Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 8:10am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/64 "2020-02-11T08:10:16Z")

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[https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2020/01/electric-scooter-industry-safety-design-micromobility/605179/](https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2020/01/electric-scooter-industry-safety-design-micromobility/605179/)

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**Author:** ![KHRonoS\_OnE](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/khronos_one/32/76903_2.png) [@KHRonoS\_OnE](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/KHRonoS_OnE)\
**Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:45am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/66 "2020-11-23T08:45:52Z")

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With none of these I can do the shopping. the load is non-existent.

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**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/codinghorror/32/36371_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/codinghorror)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:19am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/67 "2020-11-25T05:19:34Z")

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Yeah, unless you can fit it all in a backpack.. not exactly sure what the state of panniers is on electric scooters..

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**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/codinghorror/32/36371_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/codinghorror)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/70 "2021-08-29T21:55:56Z")

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I splurged and bought the M365 Pro. These are, for whatever reason, difficult to get in the USA. I paid full retail which is $599.

The main differences I outlined in the blog post:

- bigger battery (474 Wh / 12800 mAh vs. 280 Wh / 7800 mAh)
- better range (40km vs. 30km)
- more peak power (1000w vs. 700w)
- heavier (31lb vs. 27lb)
- better display

It is physically a bit larger in the platform area (5cm longer, 1cm wider) but it’s tough to notice even side by side. Even the weight difference isn’t particularly noticeable. I would recommend the M365 Pro (or similar) over the M365 if you …

- are a bigger adult
- are dealing with more hills than usual
- need the extra range

Two little quirks of the M365 that they improved on the Pro that I appreciate:

### Much better display

Four dots is.. impressively minimalistic. The lowest dot changes to a green color when you’re in eco mode, and the dots can flash.. but it’s a bit _too_ minimalistic. The pro adds a more informative display:

 ![image](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/1/819c17147b988c032aa157bd61a633a15cc7b195.jpeg)

(Also, you can apparently retrofit the M365 pro display on any M365 as long as the firmware is up to date.)

### Magnetic charging port cover

The rubber cover is a total PITA to snap into place on the M365 so I always leave it shamefully dangling, whereas on the Pro they added a magnet that lets it easily slot right back in. A little thing but so much nicer to use!

 ![image](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/d/1/d1462e88fed967fd4dd01af8e1094a14b19b4d41.jpeg)

That said, you still need a few essential mods, even for the Pro.

### Mod: Rubber bumper for the kickstand

Gives it a bit more grip so it’s “stand-ier”. I used [walking pole tips](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0711F9L2D), they had the right interior diameter (11cm). I have 5 of these left so if anyone wants one for their M365 scooter, mail me!

 ![image](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/6/5/6570d99eb88eab33db9c7d025d95b74a8d70c2dd.jpeg)

### Mod: Rear fender brace

They _finally_ [fixed this on the M365 Pro 2](https://www.t3.com/us/features/xiaomi-m365-pro-vs-xiaomi-pro-2-electric-scooter), but the Pro still inexplicably lacks a basic brace for the rear fender, which will inevitably get stepped on at some point in its life! Easy install, though it does require removing the fender briefly to screw in the rear brace on the back of the brake light / reflector.

 ![image](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/1/a1e93ea122b8431f1d4c710035f3aa0cac4eedee.jpeg)

(You can also see in this pic the much beefier rear disc brake on the Pro, it’s easily 2x the width.)

### Mod: Additional safety reflector stickers

Haven’t arrived yet but I went with a yellow theme on this one to distinguish it from the white and grey M365 I have.

 ![image](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/e/a/eac78af67be3995553115d427196cace5c118f94.jpeg)

### Mod: AirTag for security

This incredible story made me a believer in Apple AirTags. Though if you live in NYC you’ll need two: one the thief can find and remove as a decoy, and then the real one that helps you track it! 🕵️‍♂️

> <https://twitter.com/dguido/status/1424921645483966466>

(amazing story, do click through 👆)

And finally, I found a lock that works with the M365.. the FoldyLock Compact. Though it will _not_ fit through the rear wheel due to the disc brake, if you have a large enough pole / mount you’re attaching it to, the front of the scooter can be securely latched. It comes with a tidy little holder attachment that firmly grips the center steering column so you don’t have to carry it around in your backpack.

> **[Amazon.com : Seatylock High Security Folding Bike Lock (Foldylock Mini - 29.5'')...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079J835BT)**
>
> Amazon.com : Seatylock High Security Folding Bike Lock (Foldylock Mini - 29.5'') | Patented Lightweight Bicycle Lock, Heavy Duty Anti Theft Smart Secure Guard, Suitabable for Electric Scooters & City Bikes : Sports & Outdoors

Little video how to here, but again: don’t consider “through the rear wheel” a viable locking method.. there’s just no way to stick anything cut-resistant enough through that tiny gap IMO!

[![](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/uploads/default/original/3X/b/7/b71b90bcb552a8e11713e23a08acea45e4cb165f.jpeg "The best way to lock up your Xiaomi M365 eScooter") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYa26XwKccU)

As far as longevity on the two M365s I own, I haven’t had any flats or anything, which is great because I know these tires are legendarily hard to change. I have noticed a bit of battery strength drop off on the first one I owned (the grey, I added the white later when it was on sale at woot) but I did kinda abuse that first one with the kids, we’d ride it together at the same time as they learned how to ride, and so on.

Apparently the tires on the M365 Pro 2 come pre-slimed and are more resistant to puncture as well. One of [a limited number of changes](https://www.t3.com/us/features/xiaomi-m365-pro-vs-xiaomi-pro-2-electric-scooter) in that update.

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**Author:** ![Johanphilip](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v2/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@Johanphilip](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/Johanphilip)\
**Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/72 "2021-11-03T01:56:25Z")

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In order for electric tram prices to decline and become more common vehicles, reducing battery costs is almost required.  
To reduce the cost of electric car battery production, the most important thing is to focus on the most expensive source of materials - cobalt. An alternatives are nickel, cheaper metals and more energy stored. However, to do so it is necessary to adjust the safety because cobales are not too hot or easy to catch fire.

Another move is to use completely non-cobalt alternatives, such as cheap lithium-phosphate lithium batteries, each with poor performance, but promotes changing designs. In addition, the simplification of battery packs simplifies and uses a standard product for many vehicles, instead of suitable for each type of vehicle will help save battery costs.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![mendeza](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/user_avatar/discourse.codinghorror.com/mendeza/32/72925_2.png) [@mendeza](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/u/mendeza)\
**Post date:** [March 8, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://discourse.codinghorror.com/t/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/7016/74 "2023-03-08T13:11:18Z")

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Electric delivery bike lithium ion battery fires are now killing people and destroying property on a regular basis in NYC.

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