I’m a Software Engineering Student at the Netherlands, and I completely recognise your post in my class. Most of the students haven’t wrote any code before they went to this college. Now they’re programming just the minimum to get a barely high enough grade to get their diploma in 2009. Most of my fellow students have never ever touched a PC or server with Linux or even a 16bits OS like MS-DOS with a minimum of memory, they don’t care about memory or CPU usage, usability is something for hippies and writing documentation isn’t necessary. They are in the “programming is fun” phase, but I’m afraid that they’ll not reach the “programming is fun, especially if you deliver some great piece of software to your customer” phase before they get their diploma.
I think that someone which is truly enthusiast about his (future) job must try to practice it in his spare time. My dad was a carpenter, and he built several things before going to the carpenter school. An old classmate wanted to be a farmer, so he worked at a farm at his spare time.
It’s the same with Software Engineering, at college they teach you just the basics about programming, designing etc… The teachers expect you to practice in your spare time by creating little applications, reading books, etc. If you do that, you’re in the 20%, else you’re just a regular 80% guy.
(Monday morning + not enough hours of sleep = crappy English. Sorry)
Well I’m not so arrogant as to believe I’m in the top 20%, but I certainly like learning new things. The 20/80% idea is rather simplistic so I’d say things are a sliding scale.
Either IMil is right (about 13 posts above me), or I would say there are at least three categories: the 80%, the “amateurs” (those who blog and also are quite informed on general tech news, but not really advanced; on their blogs they most often comment some news and teach quite basic PHP and CSS tricks) and the true 20% (the ones who fit Ben’s description and also are remarkably productive).
So there are no 20%'ers using the tools MS hands down?
There are no leaders, trailblazers or trendsetters using VS.NET, SourceSafe or who have never touched Linux, or who have never contributed to an open source project?
I find it arrogant to associate the tools of the developer with his or her skills. Is a hammer better than a screwdriver?
I used to be a twenty-percenter. It was the early 90s, and Visual Basic was new, exciting and empowering. More to the point I was single with no kids and there was no internet, only BBSes like the Well.
Now I have a home, wife and kids, and that plus the Internet and HDTV/TiVo hoover up my time and attention like a black hole. By the end of my day I’m out of creativity. I’ve been as creative as I can be at work, followed by being creative in raising my kids, being supportive of my wife, walking the dog and doing needed chores around the house.
There is a part of me that is not proud of being an 80 percenter, but then the rest of me realizes that much of what takes up my energy is just as creative and certainly as important (if not more so) as programming.
Bear in mind also that after 20+years of programming I’m tired of having to learn the latest new technology just so I can do the same thing. Just about all of what I need to do in business programming I can do just fine in VB6, and since I have 17+ years of VB experience and a ton of prewritten code I am more than productive enough. I am tired of running as fast as I can just to stay in one place.
A project team with 100% of such 20% people. Good luck with the delivery.
As far as generalization go , I 100% believe that 90% of people from 80% category have attempted to install Linux in 50% of their ‘I want to try something new’ moments. So there is 30% hope. Go figure.
Before 30 years old I was those 20%, I was a Geek. Programming with Assembly, C, Lisp, Java, Python so on, Using Linux since 1995, Unix, Windows, Programming GPS devices on the weekends, building my small robot etc. But when I turned 30 and I got married, My life changed so radical that now I think I belong to the 80%, I care about technology and Programming but also about the paycheck to feed my family. I’m still a Geek but in the 80%.
Bah. There are 11 types of programmers in this world. Those who understand binary, those who don’t, and those who think that this is an incredibly lame joke.
“[…] there’s precious little trickle-down effect from the alpha programmers to everyone else. And if there is, it takes decades.” - So at least the insights of pioneers like Dijkstra, Parnas and Wirth should be known by now. (Wishful thinking)
“There are really only 2 types of people in the world: those who make ridiculous generalizations… and those who don’t”
hahahah, excellent boo!
And seriously, I don’t care about compilers or Linux (sorry, but editing config.sys files is so 80) and I try to never work on weekends, but I’m very passionate about my profession (just like the other reading this blog IMHO)
Is there a definitive test to figure out if you’re in the 20% group? I guess I’m also a wannabe, now that I think about it. I would also rather play video games on the weekend or spend time with the family than install some O/S or learn a new language. Meh.
Low end of the 80% - it’s arrogant poop
Most of the 80% - we work hard
20% - too busy to read blogs. j/k
Here’s a question for everyone saying “the 80%ers care and work hard and have a life.” Nothing wrong with that but what have you innovated? Nothing? It’s fine and there’s no shame in that - it’s honest work and we need that done - but as Jeff was pointing out by proxy - you members of that group don’t innovate! You DO contribute to society but don’t forge ahead in the computer field.
Me? I think I used to be a 20%er but almost 3 decades of programming has burned me out to the point I’m nowhere near that.
I’m a big geek and have spent my whole life growing up with computers, really feeling a draw to them and waiting to understand and work with them.
These days I’m realising that computers are just another tool or item like a car or TV and that this is how most people treat and look on them as such.
As my career and life moves on the techology becomes more abstracted and the people and problems to be solved become more important. I see computers more now as something to be shared and taught, rather than a skill to hold over others.
While I believe the 80/20 rule is a bit too simplistic in this case, it does get the point across and agree that the ‘20%’ should attempt to pass down some of their skills to the ‘80%’.
It’s a bit like optimising code - a 10% gain in the 80% is generally better than a 10% gain in the 20%.
I’m sorry but “installing with linux and contributing to open source”
is NOT what defines the “20%”.
What it describes is the 20% who have trouble communicating with humans, are introverted and unwashed. Have strange stutters and comb overs. Don’t know how to talk to women. Believe that archaic command line interfaces are macho and superior in every circumstance. Think swing is the pinnacle of windowing systems.
See? We can all make sweeping generalizations (except mine is true ;))
Another vote for crock of poop. Probably the poopiest post of the year. I work in a firm of 80 percenters. We don’t write Lisp compilers at the weekend, etc. Frankly I prefer to spend the weekends with my family, and going up my allotment where I grow vegetables. My eyes can’t take more than 8 hours for 5 days a week in front of the screen.
Yet despite being in the 80% we are professionals, know what we’re doing, read books and blogs, use Vault or Subversion, attend DevelopMentor training courses, have Linux on VMs on our home machines (in some cases), and are interested and passionate about programming - especially about C# and .NET. The moment VS08 was released we were requesting our IT admins to download and install it for us. And we do think about our jobs over the weekend - even though we may try to switch off. This does NOT classify us as 20 percenters. We are not leaders, trailblazers and trendsetters.
The attitude of the likes of Ben Collins-Sussman and Frans Brouma strikes me as being terribly arrogant and rather blind.
I think someone already said this, but I wonder how many of the 80% actually think they’re in the 20%. I think I’m in between the 2 - I have the skills and experience of someone in the 80% bracket, and the enthusiasm and inquisition of the 20%. So I guess there’s 3 types
