It at least preserves the newlines between items in the list.
Those of you referencing the newline issue, please see here:
https://stackoverflow.blog/2009/10/15/markdown-one-year-later/
The text that the user entered is well-formatted. Sure, itâs not markdown, but it looks a lot better than the markdown output. Markdown manages to completely miss the numbered list - thatâs a markdown problem, not a user myopia problem.
Not that I can think of a better solution, but the problem here is the technology.
âItâsasifitypedthistoyou.
Itlookswrong.
Becauseitiswrong.â
Why are you blaming the user for not realising that theyâre effectively writing source code rather than a simple message? Theyâre not wrong. Your invisible compilation stage is the wrong bit.
Donât blame the user.
If you put useful information where other people usually put advertising, donât expect the user to even glance at it.
I have used stack overflow for some time, and have only recently become aware of markdown. I thought I HAD to use HTML tags to get line breaks.
Better yet, just detect that the user is clearly using plan ascii linebreaks as linebreaks (how obvious is that?), and if so, use line breaks as line breaks!
So this is not a user problem. This is a developer problem. Donât be a problem developer and blame gthe user.
Of course users ignore all the clutter around the edges of the web page. Years of exposure to add-supported commercial websites have trained this useful habit into us.
Fixing âuser myopiaâ by adding more stuff and more highlight around the edges is not the answer. Time is short, attention is precious, and adding more clutter just makes users pay even less attention to all of it.
The only cure that I have found is that after I start to trust a site (e.g. Stackoverflow) Iâm willing to come back and pay enough attention to learn its conventions, bells and whistles.
Also, for those of you complaining about the WYSIWYG rich editors â note that if this user had clicked the numbered list toolbar button, it would have converted the text to a proper numbered list.
Simply pressing carriage return between paragraphs would have also worked absolute wonders.
Unless you write like this, with no carriage returns between your lines.
Personally I find that a bit odd. But is it normal for some users? This certainly does not look correct to me.
Does it look correct to you? Would you type a bunch of paragraphs with no carriage return between them?
Thereâs a certain lack of⌠persistence, and exploration⌠here. And Iâll remind you itâs perfectly possible to create godawful formatting in Microsoft Word, even with every WYSIWYG tool in the universe at your beck and call.
Hey, I entered a long-ish comment, only to get a submission error.
Not only do you misundestand the user, your site appears to be broken on top of that.
Donât blame the user.
I wonât blame you for not noticing that your comment was in fact posted, then 
People wonât really read stuff whichâs in an area where usually ads are.
Your users shouldnât have to learn a formatting language (with a tiny User Manual in a sidebar) to edit a comment. All this user wanted was for carriage returns to appear wherever he hit the Enter key. Why would that be an unreasonable expectation?
Iâm expecting (but I canât be sure because thereâs no preview option) that when I post this comment, the fact that I hit [Enter] after typing âthe Enter key.â above will be reflected in the published comment. If it wonât, Iâll be unhappy because I hit [Enter] for a reason.
The primary objective of your comment interface is communication, not good-looking text. Gazillions of plain-text e-mails prove that you can communicate just fine without any formatting. The way itâs set up now, youâre inconveniencing 90% of users who just want to enter raw text to accommodate the 10% who want to make a word bold or indent their numbered lists properly.
And before I click the Post button, let me say that I donât care one bit which font this comment appears in, so long as people can read it.
OK, Iâm a reasonably technical user, but if I was posting on this site and my brain already was fully occupied with the particular problem I was posting about, thereâs NO WAY I would be able to handle reading and interpreting the âformatting referenceâ you helpfully have tucked out of the way on the RHS. Itâs just a jumble of usage examples that arenât actually examples because thereâs no indication of the end result. Itâs messy and completely opaque.
Users expect their posts to look the same as the contents of the box they typed their posts in, and rightly so. If itâs otherwise, in any way, itâs either the fault of (1) the designer of the site, or (2) the userâs browser misbehaving
Jeff, there is a saying that goes: if one person tell you that you drink to much you can ignore it, if you hear it again, you should think about it. If 3 people tell you that you need to consult a doctor.
The markup is not intuitive by any means, it is only after you use the site for some time, or you were using similar approach before you begin to get used to it. But still is it not right that what you write is not what you see, especially considering that the user has access to the formatting toolbar -very confusing. It was acceptable for stackoverflow, not so much for superuser, that sites are pretty mature now so blaming the user for not understanding the interface in simply wrong. This interface is simply not user friendly for first time visitors
I think the problem in this particular case is that Markdown often ignores single returns. It seems to me that the user is actually trying to use Markdown, but doesnât realize that his text isnât formatted properly because he hasnât put two returns in front of the list, and between paragraphs.
Generally, the post is absolutely correct, though. Users donât read, and itâs almost never possible to fix usability problems by adding more explanatory text; that just clutters up the page and makes the whole thing even more confusing to users. Putting a simple example right into the text field is certainly worth a try.
I guess the big disconnect here is expecting users to put a carriage return between paragraphs; 95% of the original formatting the user wanted would have worked, completely, had he done that one thing. No magic required, really, just basic 'net ascii literacy.
Iâll also note that 95% of the above commenters have also put carriage returns between their paragraphs.
So the unusual thing, then.
Is to write like so.
With no linebreaks between your paragraphs.
What is this, ee cummings poetry?
The problem I see is twofold:
-
It does not make sense, from the UI design point of view, that you have one place to write stuff, and one place to see how it turns out. If you read About Face, their example with different windows being different rooms fits this case as well. It does not make any sense. Moreover, these two windows are separate, and distant. I always find myself writing something, scrolling down to see how it looks, scrolling up to get the input textarea again, writing a bit more. This is very annoying. The fact that you have to scroll is most likely the reason why a new user does not format at all. It simply does not see the preview area, because its focus is all on the input area and the submit button.
-
Markdown is not intuitive, and does not map well with a TXT ASCII representation, in particular in terms of newlines.
So you have both a UI design issue and a technical issue.
The markup is not intuitive by any means,
And yet, Kristof, you put a carriage return between your paragraphs in the above comment. The one very thing the above user couldnât seem to figure out, and the single solitary source of all his formatting issues.
I think a better title for this post would be, âHow Far Should We Lower The Bar?â
Or, to put it another way, how many ignorant/lazy/stupid users do you want on your website? Seriously, how difficult is it to look 100 pixels to the right (formatting help) to prevent yourself from looking like a dumbass? How difficult is it to look 100 pixels lower (preview) to prevent yourself from looking like a dumbass?
And who browses with JavaScript turned off anyway? Itâs like buying an ATI 5870 and then playing all your games at minimum resolution and minimum detail. If you have a problem with JavaScript, you have a problem with the Internet, in which case I suggest you GTFO.
âHow do we treat user myopia? How do we reach these users?â
By irritating them until they either stop being lazy and learn to read, or get so irritated that they leave us alone. Itâs a win-win situation; either you reach those users, or they sod off and waste some other communityâs time.
Ignorance/stupidity/laziness should be punished, not be rewarded by lowering the bar to make it easier for people to act like that.
âI have used stack overflow for some time, and have only recently become aware of markdown. I thought I HAD to use HTML tags to get line breaks.â
If you canât read simple instructions - that appear every time you post a question, and that are one click away on any page - I have to question your competence as a programmer.
Atwood: âThe root problem is lack of carriage returns between paragraphs, which is sort of a fairly accepted standard for net conversation ⌠just read the 20+ comments above yours. Notice a pattern?â
Obviously, it isnât standard in the population that happens to use the âsuperuserâ site.
Iâve found that not doing what you are expecting is common.
@The_Assimilator: Why should one have to read the instructions in order to post? It should be a skill we learn once, and then use forever. It shouldnât be something we have to re-learn on every single site we visit.
So, a large proportion of the commenters on this site think that you should have a carriage return meaning a line break, and you tell them they are wrong.
On the link you posted above, http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/10/markdown-one-year-later/, your article expresses doubt about this âfeatureâ and a large proportion of the posts there also disagree with it (on a quick scan - sorry, didnât read all 56 comments in detail, a summary of the conclusion you drew from it and why would be useful).
Perhaps you shuold take on board how people actually use your interface, and design it in that way, rather than trying to make them work in a way that YOU think is correct. i.e. design your user interface for your users.