We Don't Use Software That Costs Money Here

There seems to be a bit of a problem with your logic. You compared “open source enthusiast” to pirates. Actually, you said they are one in the same. Really? Pirates stole things that were expensive. Open Source Enthusiast use FREE, OPEN SOFTWARE. Perhaps you should read up on logical fallacies, specifically false analogies. Here’s a link to help you educate yourself a bit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacies

Adam

Arron Chapman: “A quick google for PHP returns 9,770,000,000 pages, same search for asp (and aspx) returns 4,520,000,000… Damn thats double.”

So? Do the same search, but replace PHP with VB6, and asp/aspx with C/C++. You’ll find way more hits for VB6. Does that mean it’s better than C/C++? Of course not. VB6 is more popular because hobbyists (non-professional programmers) find it easy to use. Perhaps that’s why PHP is so popular as well? Mom, Pop, and various script kiddies find it easier to use, whereas asp/aspx require more skills and aren’t as wide spread.

Does this post have something to do with a new pay service you are working on to provide guidance and best practices to developers?

What I really hate is commercial software that has no OSS alternative, or even cheap alternative, because then you are usually left with a half-working way overpriced app.

“pirates == open source” BTW, nice stereo type.

I program on linux, and in general use mostly free tools. Some of my art programs cost money, but I’ve been very picky and overall have been very happy with them.

That said, the vaunted “Support” of most commercial offerings isn’t. Oh the horror stories I could tell about $500,000+ licenses with ‘enterprise’ support where people on the end of the line knew less than we did about it. MS support especially.

The biggest reason for “free” software is that there is no licensing issues.

I am a Configuration Manager and when we have commercial software, I have to track licensing. Some programs are licensed per machine. You replace the machine, and you need a new license. That means paperwork. Have a 100 people in a group, and you need a full time person filling out the license changing paperwork. Software licensed per user account is almost just as bad. Every time one person leaves, and another comes, I’ve got to change the licensing info.

Then there’s licenses like Perforce that allow people to download, but only will grant x number of accounts. Not too bad, except I’m not usually told when people leave, only when we need new accounts. I run out of license, and then I have to determine who’s gone and who’s still around.

Then, there’s figuring out how many licenses you really need. I get into arguments all the time with various departments. Why do I need 140 licenses when there are only 130 developers? (Because our consultants also need access to it too). Why are we ordering 20 more licenses. Didn’t we purchase 100 three months ago? (We hired another 20 developers.) Why didn’t we originally order 120 license? (I did, but then management decided that we didn’t need that many.)

And, that doesn’t even cover vendor issues where I am suppose to order from a particular vendor instead of directly from the company. Most of the time, the vendor doesn’t stock development or non-Microsoft software, and I’ll have to work out a special deal. Then, there’s management questions. Why are we getting X which costs $1000 per user instead of Y which costs only $950 per user? Can you cost justify the purchase?

One time, we decided upon Perforce as our version control system. We ordered the licenses and waited over three months while our vendor and our purchasing department tried to figure out what to do. Everyday, I would call purchasing, get the latest Purchase Order number, call the vendor, ask why the purchase didn’t go through, call purchasing and get the information the vendor wants, call the vendor and give them the info. Call Perforce and get their status, call the vendor and tell them what Perforce told me.

Later on, our IT department decided to change all the licensing used in Perforce in order to centralize it. Another 3 months of hell as we argued and bickered about the details. I like Perforce a lot, but by that time, I wished we simply decided upon Subversion just because it is free and open source.

That’s why we use 7zip instead of WinZip or PSpad instead of TextPad. It’s not these are superior programs. It’s simply easier to use the fre stuff than to deal with the licensing issues.

@really? you must think all the people building large projects using either are complete idiots. let’s see something large you built with your tools of choice. hmmm, i see Sun shelled out some cash to buy MySQL…must be that toy databases are good business…maybe you should create a mediocre toy database that Microsoft will buy!

I think all the people building large projects with MySQL either don’t have the cash to buy MS SQL or they’re being shortsighted, yes. No one in their right mind will put mission critical stuff on MySQL. No bank in their right mind will run on MySQL.

And just because Sun bought them doesn’t make them good business - this is the same Sun that came out with Java so that hardware is irrelevant, and they also make hardware. Also they come out with Solaris for free, but it runs on x86 as well which they don’t make. Sun isn’t the best decision maker.

@Rob Uttley

I used to be an IC also, but now work for company. We’re kinda big, but still always focused on the bottom line (we build software, so maybe that’s why :slight_smile: ).

What’s also interesting is that, lest we forget, open source might be monetarily “free”, but all of it’s covered by some form of license (unless it’s truly “freeware” which means nobody holds any license to and it is truly in the public domain unencumbered by any restrictions). To that end I can name off the top of my head several commercial hw products using embedded Linux, yet blatantly violating the terms of its license. Believe me, there’s one in particular I’d love to expose, but I don’t feel like poking a hornets’ nest. Is that piracy too? Yes, because it’s two sides of the same coin: breaching an intellectual property usage contract.

Damien Guard: “For a team of 30 developers spending $900+ on licenses for something that’s a bit better than free alternatives and rarely used is difficult to justify.”

From http://www.scootersoftware.com/shop.php:

1 - 4 users: $30 each
5 - 9 users: $17 each
10 - 49 users: $13 each
50 - 99 users: $7 each
100 - 199 users: $5 each
unlimited: $1000 per site

Don’t you hate it when people make blanket statements without checking the facts first? :slight_smile: Or when they overlook obviously common things like multiple license discounts and/or site licenses?

I am a bit of a free software fanatic, but I ponied up $30 for BeyondCOmpare several years ago because it really was/is better than the free alternatives (for my needs and tastes). My company has subsequently purchased a site license, but I use it at home too. They actually have very generous bulk/site/world licensing options. In the spirit of shareware, they have a fully-functional free 30 day trial.

My other favorite tool that I was willing to pay for over the many free alternatives was editPlus it’s built in FTP client and plugin architecture. as well as macro support make this ‘basic editor’ capable of performing like a lightweight

this blog is getting too big/popular for comments to be enabled

maybe you should create a mediocre toy database that Microsoft will buy!

Microsoft already has a mediocre toy database.

I stopped reading after:

These people used to be called pirates. Now they’re open source enthusiasts.

Get a clue.

It all comes down to one single issue: HOW MUCH IS YOUR LIVELIHOOD WORTH TO YOU?

I buy software products, operating systems, books journals, pay for extras when it comes to connectivity, and travel to events to meet with peers. All of that costs money, but its truly an investment. An investment that should always be your top priority.

You and your career.

Your employer should not be the number one investor in your future; you should be!

FYI, Webshots is now owned by American Greetings Corporation, the people who make the “Happy Birthday” type cards you can send by snail mail. I would not be surprised if content is more closely scrutinized and controlled.

It’s tempting to ascribe this to the “cult of no-pay”, programmers and users who simply won’t pay for software no matter how good it is, or how inexpensive it may be.

Er, there’s a difference between “won’t pay for software” and “won’t use software that costs money” that you appear to have overlooked. One’s only about getting owt for nowt; the other’s a moral choice. The “pirates” are still around - and they never were (or only incidentally) “open source enthusiasts”.

Jeff, do you truly see no distinction between the two camps, or were you just being uncharacteristically thoughtless?

It is not “free vs commercial”, your own example of MySQL is both.

It can be either “no pay vs for pay” or it can be “open vs closed source”.

The “gratis only” camp is a bit silly, if you are a professional any time saved should be well worth the price of the software. But not entirely, I work in research and education, and I prefer to only depend on “gratis” software, simply so money should no be what prevent a poor third world from building on our work. We do pay for non-essential software though.

A preference for open source software usually come from experience, when you have been burned too many times from a closed software whose “business vision” no longer match what you are going, you start looking seriously at the licenses of the software you use, and whether they tie you to a single vendor or not.

With regard to “mass produced vs. targeted software”, you have the best chance in the later camp if you are in the “open source but willing to pay” camp, as you can pay someone to customize a product just for you.

Which also leads to what I believe is the best long strategy for a programming career: Extend open source software to the needs of your clients.

Even though the “Open Source Movement” is relatively recent, free software always existed, way before the commercial software industry was created, as a matter of fact. So to call people that didn’t buy software pirates is plain rude and uninformed. I didn’t buy software in the 80’s, but it’s because I could find everything I wanted in BBS, or I would type code printed in software enthusiast magazines, or whatever.

But you have to know that, you’re not that ignorant about software history. Are you adopting John C. Dvorak’s “controversy == page views == money” strategy lately?

Pirates don’t pay for software, but people that don’t pay for software are not necessarily pirates, that logic 101.

@JustAnotherPirate

nah, you just retarded like most OSS zealot tripping over something that’s really nothing. you are probably one of those slashdot tard who never read the entire article before shooting out his mouth. Your alias should be JustAnotherOSSRetard.

Great post.

I think the competition is also increasing each year because people are rebelling against software rot. Many applications (especially of the utility variety) get the majority of the useful features in the first 3-4 revisions. After that software vendors start piling on niceties that slow the app down and make it more difficult to use without adding much value.

Besides having the right price, most free or open source alternatives are appealing to me because they often load faster and are easier to use than mature commercial alternatives because they are not burdened with so many extra features that I don’t need.

Last night I spent 3 hours looking for “free version/equivalent” of $25 pay software.

Stupid, eh? I wasn’t even going to be the one buying it.