Bloggers often come off as somebody carrying a set of stone tablets down a mountain too though. This can be galling when they’re spouting something that’s opinion at best, and presenting it as fact. The loyal bobble-heads chiming in with agreement must be like salt in the wound for those with strong opposing opinions.
None of that excuses rudeness, which also serves to undermine the dissenter’s opinion.
But this is one way that blogging is often very like journalism as typically practiced today. Objectivity seems to be a very scarce commodity.
I guess I just disregard posts when they degrade into personal insults and name calling. I used to frequent some forums where one could put folks on an ‘ignore’ list. That was great because the trolls and jerks could be essentially removed from my forum threads. It wasn’t perfect (particularly when people quotted them), but it was better than nothing. I guess blog comments aren’t really the same sort of beast, so I just actively skip over the stuff that is clearly a pointless ad hominem attack.
The golden rule is always a good policy in my book.
I agree generally with the points you made on your blog post about blog comments. As much as I enjoy the topics you write about here, I think the lack of comments would make them a little less interesting.
I totally agree, constructive criticism is a great thing, privatly talking to someone about their rudeness is also a very good thing. Attacks in public achieve nothing and bring down the the tone of an otherwise healthy debate.
Respect between people who disagree is a very admirable thing and something that should be encouraged in all debates.
That G.I.F.T. theory is brilliant! As an ex-avid gamer I came across people like that ALL the time. Namely ‘hackers’ and blatant cheats that would run around maps holding the server hostage. Even worse, entire known teams that were known for it. What got my goat however were the people that kept associating with these people and never drove them into isolation - even if that was by way of lack of association.
To draw the correlation here - whether it be a comment in a blog, forum, or online game, the best course of action is to completely ignore it. Do not reply or you’ll be playing into their imaginary game.
I’d go so far as to delete comments that were ineffective/inappropriate. I don’t advocate this though - this can lead to a very angry sensored audience.
Couldn’t agree more, Jeff. Unfortunately I’ve noticed that the more nasty words have starting bubbling from the comments and into the actual blog posts as well. The many negative bloggers out there keep going on with their negativity because of a few readers that praise them for their “straight talk.”
What they don’t seem to realize is that even though they may be pleasing 10% of their possible readers with their “straight talk” they’re losing the other 90% of their readers and credibility.
While I agree with the sentiment you set forth in your post, I think that it’s relevant to point out that Wil certainly has participated in this very type of behavior himself. Does that make the comment towards him any less wrong? No. However, I think that spreading forth such comments is only going to feed those against you.
Specifically, his comment in the very post you link to that states:
“Microsoft has tried to foist off on us over the years (Direct-stuff, Active-thing, C-sharp, .Net, Live-whatever) – because they don’t fucking use their own stuff.”
…this type of misinformed digression is exactly the type of stuff that Miss Manners would have a fit over (if Miss Manners was capable of having a fit). Putting a comment like that out there is surely going to come back to you, and it did.
I’m showing my age. Because civility has never been the hallmark of network communications. Blogs are the inheritors of a long tradition that started on email lists, migrated to the Usenet and from thence to web based forums.
From a news.misc post dated Feb 17, 1989
One basic notion underlying Usenet is that it is a cooperative.
Having been on USENET for going on ten years, I disagree with this. The basic notion underlying USENET is the flame. Whatever cooperation that does go on with USENET is there simply to make it easier for people to rip each other to pieces…
Seems to me that if you go berserk and word vomit a bunch of “misinformed digression(s)” on your post, you’re asking someone to call you exactly what you were acting like.
What bothers me the most are the folks on forums who calmly ask questions and are met with responses of “fucking google it jackass” and the like.
following up on Josh’s comment, Wil’s post then followed on with this little nugget of righteousness:
“Us programming in AJAX while Apple programs in real OS X is basically a case of Apple not eating its own dogfood, except that JavaScript isn’t dogfood, it’s dog sh*t.”
Although I agree with the basic premise of your post, Jeff, I have to say that content of Wil’s original posting left him completely open to the label of “a-hole”.
Reasonable men can (when the need arises) knife you in the back. If you dish it out as Will does then you should be able to take it. On the other hand if your argument reduces to, “I don’t like you 'cause you’re a …” then why bother. To a certain extent the web is an echo chamber so feigned outrage (on either side of a debate) is just plain ridiculous. Get passionate and upset about the children that die from positive actions that people take every day on this planet where murder is legitimate policy (on every side.) But fevered words about an API (or lack of) should just make us all ashamed.
I enjoyed your post and agree completely. That is a wonderful letter along with his other writings. I think that this is the result of growing up with computers and extensive use of chat rooms and pseudonyms. The pseudonyms allow and encourage flaming the other person rather than having a discussion. At this time most people are unable to carry on a conversation no matter if it’s on a computer or in person. Part of having a conversation and communicating with human beings is being able to disagree but still listen in an intelligent manner and be able to see the other person’s point of view. Of course, not all chat rooms and discussion boards are bad, there are quite a few like this one that have a lot of good information on them.
After reading your blogs for the past several months, I feel this particular entry is my favorite. I could not agree with you more. I feel the best way to resolve a conflict or to express criticism is to approach it rationally and level-headed. Too many people on the internet seem to get e-muscles and they are suddenly tough behind a monitor and keyboard.
I think Art’s “pussifying” comment hits the nail on the head. Flames are how some young men try to demonstrate their manhood in the online world. It’s 99% guys doing the flaming, as we all know.
The first person to swear usually appears to be losing the debate, unless it’s some truly creative and appropriate profanity. (Which is quite rare.) But some guys don’t seem to know that.