Why Doesn't Anyone Give a Crap About Freedom Zero?

the developer hasn’t made any progress in 3,4 or 5 years. All interest has dried up and the code just sits there. And even though anyone can resume the project, does any honest developer really believe they are going to take on someone else’s leftovers?

I believe that in cases like this, the code isn’t really needed. If it were, the project wouldn’t have been abandoned in the first place.

Another (not very likely) possibility is that everyone who needed it, just took the old version of it, fixed it to work with latest packages/their current OS, and didn’t bother to release the patch :slight_smile:

Hey Now Jeff,
Mac’s have pro’s like you mentioned. My mom likes it since you plug a camera in out pops the DVD. Nice ez. With a PC a few extra buttons are needed to be pressed. Good old dongle keys. I also remember when we were able to use the usb dongle keys (so much better since newer pc often don’t have a printer port to plug in the older style). Great post as always.
Coding Horror Fan,
Catto

Jeff, great post as alway. Let’s take a look at what Apple fanboy are crying about.

"The Mac is closed compared to open source, but is it really any more closed than Windows? Could you elaborate on why you “find Apple’s brand of hardware lock-in particularly egregious”.

Your argument doesn’t make sense. A Mac is not a dongle, it is a computer. You can run any software you want on it, including Windows and Linux. You can develop and run your own software on OS X. This is not like a video game console at all. The platform is “closed” only in the sense that the operating system Apple ships only runs on their hardware, in limited configurations. If you want to run Mac software, you have to buy an Apple machine.

With a Mac, you pay more, but you can run any software that you want. Check out Parallels or Boot Camp. You can run Linux and OSS no problem"

Fact to the matter is Mac use DRM hardware to lock you into their overpriced commodity hardware. While MS Windows allow you to run on ANY commondity hardware even Mac without any speical hardware. How in the fucking hell is Mac more open? The COLD HARD FACT is you can run Windows on Mac while you CAN NOT run OS X on PC just show you how lock down Mac is!

It amazed me how fanboy can be so blinded that they don’t see the jail when they walk into one.

As has been said above, most people want something that works for what they want to do. If you’re into hacking kernels, then you’ll choose Linux or a BSD, because that system lets you do what you want to do.

The issue of software freedom is something else entirely, however. Even those who profess to care about it look the other way when they use drivers containing pseudo-proprietary BLOBs or drivers that required the developer to sign a NDA. If I want to modify the driver, I have to either give away some of my rights by signing the same NDA or reverse-engineer something, so I’m in the same boat as people running OS X on non-Apple hardware. The only exception to this, as far as I know, is OpenBSD. And hardly anyone runs OpenBSD, even though the command-line interface is (in my opinion) the best of any *NIX system. There are probably many reasons for this, but one big reason is that it’s a bitch to get a system with the newest hardware that will be fully supported by OpenBSD. So Linux users are doing the same thing as Mac users: sacrificing some software freedom to get something that works for them. It’s just a matter of degree.

“Look at the software dongles your mothership has inflicted on people? Office. IE. Windows. Hypocrite is right.”

Do Microsoft use any speical hardware to prevent you from running Windows on Mac? Can i run Mac on PC with Apple blessing?

Almost every device we own is zero freedom: televisions, receivers, CD players, VCRs, DVD players, toasters, phones, clock radios, etc. Everyone can use those devices just fine (except for the blinking 12:00). It seems natural to me that those people would want a computer that’s as easy to use (and limited). That explains Apple’s growing market share, while developers like us go for the PC. It also explains why gaming consoles are so popular when, arguably, PCs are more flexible and upgradeable.

This is why Apple will be dominant in the market of people who want their computer to work as easily as their television. The PC will be for people who need a more flexible environment and who are willing to deal with it crashing and losing data occasionally.

Calm down. Have some dip.

Let’s see. The mac just works, is a functioning unix implementation, is rock solid and does security well since it’s UNIX.

Windows was originally a pretty interface on top of DOS, with graphical APIs for apps. Oh, and DOS was a single user OS. Then they decided to add some users and still security sucked compared to Unix.

If you want a hacker system, consider Linux. That’s truly a hacker ecosystem.

Windows locks stuff down too. For example the way they stupidly didn’t let you take a screenshot of a window behind the screen by sending it WM_PAINT. You can only send it WM_PRINT and most applications ignore this. Oh well, so for the longest time we had

  • strange bugs with repainting windows in the background, leaving trails, confusing users, where only programmers would realize “the background window isn’t repainting itself”. And even so you don’t really know if a window is there anymore or if the window behind it hasn’t redrawn itself yet.

  • a hacky add-on for translucency (layered windows) in Windows XP. Because there was just no way to get the contents of the windows underneath.

  • all kinds of ways applications could use the background windows (e.g. to make a PROPER app switcher with previews) are like IMPOSSIBLE unless you remember to take a screenshot of a window when it’s in front, and hope it doesn’t go out of date.

That’s just one example of how apps on Windows aren’t exactly free either.

The issue you’re arguing about is that the Mac software is integrated with the hardware. It won’t run on just any hardware, without hacking it. I think that ensuring something runs well is better for most purposes than the “freedom” to muck around and get all sorts of incompatibility problems and a slow system.

There will always be free systems. Look at all the Linux variants. Microsoft is midway between Mac and Linux, in that it is more open but still prevents a lot. Especially in VISTA. And Microsoft works hard to make sure hardware works with their software, but still Vista has problems. Who wins from this ? Hardware manufacturers?

I agree you have a point in principle, but in practice the Mac is just better in many ways. (Now Apple, go fix Panther!! :slight_smile:

Just my 2c.

My personal experience with OSS is such that when I hear someone
mention using OSS, I pretty much think “Oh God, you’re gonna be in
hell!”. That is due to my personal experience that the vast majority
of OSS I have dealt with SUCKS! The software SUCKS, the support
SUCKS MORE

Another thing: I don’t see anything that SUCKS with any of my OSS-machines, everything just works. But, well, I am one of those godless persons who somehow are able to read (the manual) when neccessary, or even use Google. It’s a shame that only afterwards I realized that reading your post was not neccessary.

I think most of your OSS-problems are based on the attitude of the component that’s sitting between your chair and the monitor. I recommend getting it fixed, or stay far away from OSS.

Samuli on January 29, 2008 09:00 AM

Thanks for validating exactly what I stated about my OSS experience. This is exactly the attitude I am talking about: “Gee, if it works for me, I am clearly superior to you or you just didn’t spend enough time – it must be your fault that it doesn’t work for you.”

You completely missed my point: I don’t want to spend my time trying to make it work, I want to install it and then spend my time using it, whatever IT is.

For example, I used an OSS IDE for java development. Even the simplest things I tried to do didn’t work out of the box (gee, parse a WSDL doc for one of the world’s most commonly used web services, you couldn’t expect that to just work in an IDE, could you?). I wound up spending more time trying to make the IDE work, hacking build scripts, and things like that than I did working on the project I wanted to write. Just because I can hack build scripts and google for solutions, doesn’t mean I want to. When I install and run an IDE, I just want it to work so I can concentrate on my project.

Now I use Visual Studio.Net and guess what? It just works! I can concentrate on writing code, not debugging the IDE.

or stay far away from OSS.

Oh yes I do!

“Fact to the matter is Mac use DRM hardware to lock you into their overpriced commodity hardware”

I don’t feel locked to any particular OS. I think it’s the software you use that locks you to a particular OS and almost every open source and commercial application on OS X runs also on windows and possibly on linux.
The same is true for linux users.
However I have seen many windows users locked to their operating system (yes, they can choose any hardware they want, but they can’t leave windows).

Dude: Sorry for the negative tone I had previously. But what can you do, you have your needs for the software: You might tell the project in question about your ideas. If they don’t care to do that, then you could do it yourself. If you don’t have time, interest or skills to do it, then you could pay someone to do it. If you don’t have that much extra cash, then you use a (cheap) system where those features are already implemented. It’s as simple as that.

I have no need for the features you mentioned, so the implementer won’t be me. OSS works perfectly for me, I really don’t care if you will or won’t be an OSS user.

This is how it works. No one will be kissing your ass to use any (at least non-commercial) OSS.

I can’t disagree more with this post.

I don’t think that OSX/Apple is in any way more limited than PC. Maybe in 1997 it was , before USB got really popular. Now almost any periperal is available via USB and the Mac’s are great at recognizing hardware, and OSX is very well supported by hardware vendors.

Software is, in some ways more available for OSX, I tend to use a lot of OSS software, so the *NIX platform, including OSX is heavily supported.

I can’t disagree with Apple on closing thier hardware/software platform, they ensure an amazing level of quality and performance. It’s a good platform. Maybe one day they’ll realize that businesses use computers and perhaps they should put some effort into that area.

Face it, most people buy an “appliance” to handle their “stuff” on. Music, Photos, Videos. Apple makes it work simple, buy a box and get a bunch of software that just work, and work good together.

As a developer I have selected the Mac for many reasons. But first and most important I value my time the most. The dev-tools are free and easy to install. They are delivered with all systems. There is a bunch of great shells available out of the box. I think the extra install/setup time for a windows box makes a Mac well worth the higher price. And I don’t know why but I often needed to reinstall windows, maybe this is better now? Then there is the “philosophy” of things…I’m for working, simple, things. I just love Time Machine (safe freedom 0)

I’ve been reading Coding Horror for a while and I hate to say it but this article really sounds like someone trying to justify their bias against the Mac platform.

‘Macs are dongles to run the Mac OS’. Yup, just like airplanes are dongles to fly through the air. That’s just the way it is and complaining about it is not gonna make your Honda Civic fly.

Geez…

Eric

You have already provided the answer: if it works, what’s the problem?

“All they [OSX] need is a geek user base to develop all those neet apps we are so used to in windows…At this point it will be a serious competitior.”

Like what?

I think you’ve got part of the answer in the post, as to why people apparently don’t care about Freedom 0.

I think people do care, but only for the amount of exercise of that freedom that actually affects them. And, by and large, most proprietary software provides that (though maybe not if one chooses to abide by the letter of the EULA).

For instance, most Windows software that I’ve bought can be installed on any Windows machine that I own, regardless of what the license says about number of computers. And Microsoft has put a significant amount of effort into making sure that old software runs on new operating systems – sure, not perfect, but by and large it’s true. My favorite image editor is one I bought nine years ago; it still works quite well, just like it did. And that’s a pretty extreme case; most people would have chucked it for something newer by now.

(And, as an aside, it’s not like something being free software prevents it from getting abandoned, either. I use Zinf to play my music. GPL-licensed. Last update was several years ago, and I suspect it’s dead.)

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out as DRM software gets better – whether companies will actually use it to restrict Freedom 0 for their users in ways that impact what those users actually want to do (such as sharing from computer to computer), and what that will do to sales. I suspect the result is going to be about like what happened with dongles – sure, it’s technically a great solution and completely stops nickel-and-dime piracy, but consumers hate it and the net result is a hit to the bottom line rather than a benefit.

It’s also interesting, looking at the occasional story of businesses that get burned by the BSA – which is sort of the ultimate DRM, when it comes into play. I don’t know if there are enough “never again; I’m going completely with free software” anecdotes to make up data or not, but there might be. I suspect the personal-computing situation and the business-compution situation are rather different.

(The business story I’ve heard most is, “We care, but this is what our business partners use, so we have to use it too, even though we’d rather not.” Or, simply, that the benefits outweigh the costs.)

Meanwhile, I’d be interested in seeing statistics for supported lifetime of free-software programs versus proprietary ones – that is, for what length of time can one get a new version of the program that’s backwards-compatible with the old data files and is essentially a new, improved version of the old thing? The theory of “there’s always a path forward” is nice, but does it actually map into benefits? Going back to Zinf, I can’t make it a modern shiny application on my own; if the community isn’t there, it’s as dead as my copy of Macromedia Picture Publisher – and, if in practice the free software is more likely to get abandoned, I’d be better off going with the software that is likely to have a practical future.

But a lot of the comparison isn’t among the average programs; it’s Word versus Open Office, Photoshop, and so forth. Even if those get abandoned, the user base is large enough that there will still be compatible paths forward. It’s not really about programs anyway; it’s about data, and work habits.

“However I have seen many windows users locked to their operating system (yes, they can choose any hardware they want, but they can’t leave windows).”

Care to explain why user can’t leave windows? linux is easy to install and even vendor like Dell is selling PC with linux.

@jin for g3 and g4 mac compatible computers of other companies existed, but were not sold very well.

I buy consoles because I want the software, and it’s not available elsewhere (in most cases). In fact, after the rug was pulled out from under the Dreamcast by Sega due to its Japanese sales before it even had a chance in the U.S., I came up with a new formula to determine whether or not I would buy a new console:

c = cost of the console (new)
g = combined cost of all of the games I currently really want for the console (not just games I think I might like)

if (c g)
{
buy_the_console();
}

Note that when they don’t release new games that I really want over time, g will go down, sometimes faster than c.

Buying an Apple product is a pretty similar concept, but I have trouble overcoming the fact that the hardware is the same except for what basically amounts to a dongle soldered onto the motherboard, especially now that they’ve moved to an Intel platform and you can’t even argue differences in the processors.

. I’m pretty sure all US readers can remember being able to board a plane without having a government issue ID.

You can still board a plane in the US without a government-issued ID (in fact, most people do board planes without a federally-approved ID, since most states don’t issue them, yet). In order to board a plane without any ID, though, you not only have to buy the ticket with cash, but submit to the more thorough security screening that some people are randomly subjected to anyway. In some cases, it’s the fastest way to get on a plane if you don’t mind people rifling through your carry-on luggage and patting you down. Besides that, the identification requirements haven’t really changed much in the last 25 or more years.

As for computers being required to be ‘internet legal’, it would require a few things that certainly would set off some alarms early in the process, especially since it would require changes to the protocol itself that would make not only the end-users’ PCs incompatible, but most likely the servers and routers that make the internet worthwhile incompatible.