David Heinemeier Hansson has a problem with Windows as a programming platform.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original blog entry at:

Great post. To be honest, I’m getting pretty sick of all the Mac-touting Rails programmers with their holier-than-thou attitudes preaching about how they’re better than everyone else.

In case you’re one of them, here’s a tip: none of us are listening because we’re busy getting things done in our own environments. :stuck_out_tongue:

Laugh out loud indeed. This is one of your better posts in recent memory. Keep up the great work…

Amen… That and there are some of us in the Windows world who choose to write with Windows (.NET) because they can influence and help other developers. Helping them to find the find joy in object-oriented programming, know of and about patterns, and generally be a benefit to the community as a whole rather than trash-talk there way into elitism.

The things that make a language great are the people sitting behind the screens. If you can get the best .NET developer and the best Ruby developer in the same room, I beat you that both are equally good at developing.

Those that think great developers are an attribute of a genetic gift (or social impairment) and that great developers can not be taught into greatness need to take that same argument and apply it to language elitism.

It doesn’t matter I never found the time to play with Ruby, but that certainly doesn’t mean I would suck at it. Besides, languages are only a small part of the equation, I’d hate to be labeled ‘the .net guru’ or the ‘ruby guru’ because i want to be ‘the guru’ regardless of language choice.

In the end, all languages die, the program you wrote today will be re-written in a ‘better’ language tomorrow. To think the lines of code you write today will be around 5 years from now, or even 2 years from now is a naive thought…

So great, program in Ruby on the latest version of Fedora, but let’s see what you can do with your ‘perfect’ language. In the end all someone really cares about is what they interact with, not what language it was written in.

Great thoughts there; since when did the tool determine the talent of the artist?

Heh, once you go Mac, you don’t go Back. :slight_smile:

/touts OS X Rails-Love :slight_smile:

(Everything just works perfectly together)

On windows, you can’t take advantage of a full unix enviornment.

On linux, you can’t take advantage of a full commercial, professional enviornment (photoshop, etc)

On OS X you can do both. That’s why it’s an amazing developer choice.

And don’t mention VMware, that shit is not native speed.

Please remember that DHH’s famous “fuck you” slide was done at a Rails conference and clearly done as a mid-presentation “rah, rah” for the Rails tribe in the audience. It’s also self-evident that “the DHH 'tude” has been wonderfully productive at generating press for Rails 37Signals.

DHH does come across as an ass, but I’ll take a politically incorrect (even arrogant) ass over a spineless sheep anyday. For the record, my development platform of choice is Linux and I care a good deal about Freedom 0.

No one likes douchebags, even us Mac users (hell, to those of us who are long-time Mac users sometimes the new converts end up the most annoying… a bit like some new, and hence militant, non-smokers that way I suppose).

Anyway, probably all full of valid points save for this one, if I may be so bold:

“Which also means when you’re using Rails and OS X, you’re using the platform of choice for douchebags.”

Might I suggest a way that more accurately fits with the point I think you’re trying to make in this post would be:

“Which also means when you’re using Rails and OS X, you’re using the platform of choice for a douchebag”?

Else you’re going to hurt my feelings calling me a douchebag without having met me first :wink:

Hey Now Jeff,
@ David - #2!
Coding Horror Fan,

If web development, specifically Ruby On Rails development, is the only “cool” career to be going for, I guess that all of us poor saps that develop fantastic fat client apps where web apps don’t fit are totally deluded?

Very pimly-adolescent stuff! My computer is cooler than yours so nah!

From a market-oriented point of view (you know, number of users who will benefit from your work) the topic of which platform is best for development is as relevant as the topic of which motorbike is the best (Harley or Japanese) to a dolphin. The only thing that actually matters in all of this is under which environments are our users most willing to find the greatest benefit in what we do.

Anything else is an exercise in futility.

Classic. Absolutely classic. Jeff you must have been giggling the whole time you wrote this.

Man Crush!

Now let’s see if DHH posts a response…

I don’t get why people have to get all high-and-mighty about their platform of choice. It’s a preference, and its choosing the right tool for the job… if you have a choice.

Personally, I think Visual Studio 2005 rocks. As does Eclipse. I haven’t done any Linux programming, but I’m sure lots of their tools are great, too. Does it really matter?

Pick a decent tool and kick some ass with it. Save your religion for church.

Hey Jeff,

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Very well written post :smiley:

Bad day?

No matter what you think about DHH’s comments, you have to admit that a large proportion of the Windows platform programmers out there are on the platform ONLY because of the market not because the platform is technically superior in any way.

Totally with you. I have a couple Mac laptops nowadays and it makes me want to apologize every time I see some one notice. I went to school with a bunch of kids from Europe and for the longest time I tried to tell myself DHH was just expressing himself poorly, that he couldn’t possibly be as divisive as he comes across. But I think he is, and I think his attitude is why the Rails community is such a wonderfully friendly place for noobs and non-Rails devotees. It’s fun to get talked down to by some 17 year-old with 1/100th the experience of you just because you don’t know the framework that he uses as a crutch.

I just started playing with Rails again ( and it’s like Groundhog Day. I’ve come to feel Rails is going to turn into the new VB (no offense, Jeff)/ Powerbuilder, where it’s such a robust framework it gets overwhelmed by the noobs. Which would be fine, because it seems like the majority of people using it day-to-day are so wrapped up in working with Rails they can’t be bothered to learn how to make useful, usable apps. They seem to be more dismissive of icky users than the average.

Framework of choice for misanthropes since 2004.

As a linux convinced user, I do admit I can’t stand people not understanding that OS choice is not revelant. Coding as not much to do with OS, but with pleasure. If you like difficulties oops windows, stick with it, it wont prevent you from doing great things.

Anyway, have fun. The rest is bullshit.

Just when Atwood was getting into a rut of ho-hum posts, we get this gem dropped on us. The first time I read DHH’s sentiments I got the impression he was saying “I’m a better programmer, and smarter, than the smartest developer who works on the Windows platform.” What a douche sentiment. Developers who leverage F/OSS to their advantage are smart. Developers who are religious about F/OSS are hippies.

Well spoken, Jeff! Amen * 2